tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4877340211578114982024-02-20T20:59:28.480-05:00JB and the JWsJBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-65411755394360942722010-12-05T13:31:00.005-05:002011-03-25T08:15:33.908-04:00An Epilogue<p align="justify">It no doubt goes without saying, but this blog has effectively run its course. In part, that's because I developed such a massive backlog of posts to write that I said, "Ah heck with it". So now let me briefly summarize developments. <p></p><p align="justify">I haven't heard from any Jehovah's Witnesses in months and months. It's amazing how ready they are to just let someone slip through their fingers like that. Maybe someday I'll run into more Jehovah's Witnesses again; who knows?</p><p align="justify">While finishing up my undergraduate degree, I continued to meet with missionaries all the way to the end. As I continued to persist in those studies, I received what I would regard - in accordance with the standards presented to me by the missionaries themselves - as a testimony that Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God and that I ought not enter their church. Some of the discussions were plenty interesting; one of the missionaries got quite hostile with me once or twice for no justifiable reason, while the other one conducted himself very well. After graduating college, some sister missionaries were sent to my house a few times, and we had some nice but not terribly stimulating discussions before I passively brought it to an end before a vacation. Since then I have not been meeting with any LDS missionaries. I have since moved out of state to attend seminary and pursue an MDiv degree.</p><p align="justify">I do retain a somewhat newfound interest in LDS-Evangelical dialogue, which I will continue to explore at <a href="http://study-and-faith.blogspot.com/">Study and Faith</a>. If it's the sort of thing that could even remotely interest you, please go there, read it, subscribe to it, etc. In fact, I strongly encourage it, because I'm becoming very active there.</p><p align="justify">And so I now formally conclude this blog's run. It's been an interesting time, and I hope to see you around my new blog.</p><p align="justify">Peace,<br />JB</p>JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-64529990725871434862010-04-09T23:10:00.009-04:002010-05-27T15:51:21.575-04:00LDS Lesson #12<div align="justify">So today I once again walked down to meet with the LDS missionaries. I got another surprise when I learned that Demophon had been transferred, being replaced with another missionary whom I'll call "Cresphontes". We got a ride back to campus with Epaphos, whose family had driven me to church <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/03/first-visit-to-lds-church.html">the time I went last month</a>. Epaphos, Kallinos, and Cresphontes accompanied me to the campus chapel, where we found an empty classroom in the basement to occupy. On the way over, Cresphontes and I chatted about where he'd been before his transfer: not too far from my hometown, as it turns out. He'd served with a predominantly Spanish-speaking ward in the county seat. Cresphontes, like Demophon and Kallinos before him, were in awe of the grandeur of the chapel; as I found out from Kallinos on the walk over, Demophon had been blown away by the pipe organ in the sanctuary.<br /><br />When we got to the classroom, we chatted for a bit about a couple classes I'd had in the room before, one of which was Religion in America, and I explained to Epaphos that I'd actually taught the material on Mormonism in that class, since I knew more about it than the professor. I then, of course, had to explain yet again for Epaphos and Cresphontes how I first came into contact with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and then Kallinos opened us in prayer. Then I told them what the church building in Greece was like, how my discussions with Creon and Orestes and Admetus went, etc., etc., and eventually how I came to continue things here. The missionaries were somewhat surprised to hear that the missionaries in Greece couldn't get their hands on an English copy of the <em>Doctrine and Covenants</em> for me. And I also talked with them about fires, riots, and economic collapse - Greece in a nutshell, in other words.<br /><br />Then, of course, Kallinos had to go and ask the question about what in particular got me interested in the Latter-day Saints, and I again gave my feeble answer of interest in the different range of exegetical and theological views that one finds there that aren't present in mainstream Christianity, etc., etc. I always have a hard time with that question. Then it went on:<br /></div><blockquote><p align="justify"><strong>Cresphontes:</strong> So you've read the Book of Mormon, ah, did you take Moroni's promise at the end? How'd you feel after that?</p><p align="justify"><strong>JB:</strong> Uhhh... I'm still working on persisting in prayer to know if these things are true. I haven't yet heard anything definitive either way. So I'm going to keep praying about it and keep working at it "by study and also by faith", I think is the phrase.</p><p align="justify"><strong>Kallinos:</strong> If you were to receive that it was true, what would you do?</p><p align="justify"><strong>JB:</strong> I would immediately begin moving in the direction of becoming a baptized member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.</p><p align="justify"><strong>Kallinos:</strong> Good, so you have the 'real intent' down....</p><p align="justify">[...]</p><p align="justify"><strong>Cresphontes:</strong> Do you mind if I share with you the experience I had, how I got my answer?</p><p align="justify"><strong>JB:</strong> Go for it.</p><p align="justify"><strong>Cresphontes:</strong> Well, I was raised in the church, so I mean, I was fed this stuff by my parents from an early age [...] but everyone needs to prove (?) it. Because we're not born Mormon, Buddhist, Taoist, anarchist. We find the truth by how hard we search for it [...] Um, when I was about fourteen or fifteen, and I was attending seminary - which is kind of like a class [...] high school, where [I learned (?)] gospel doctrine, I learned the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants, the Old Testament and New Testament. I personally thought that the Book of Mormon was false, because there wasn't any scientific proof of it. Something I became very aware of is that trying to prove God exists with science might be fun but won't work. How I got my answer was, Gordon B. Hinckley - the prophet at the time - told us to read the Book of Mormon by the end of the year. So this was around August [...] like every teenager [...] I read little bits now and then. Around Christmas break, I was like, "You know what? If I read this, and if it's true, then what I believe is true, Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, the authority of God is back on the earth in the priesthood, [...] Jesus Christ's true Church, the Church he set up, is back on the earth. If it's false, then I guess I gotta [...]." So for me it was kind of hit or miss. (?) [...] I prayed, and... there was no voice. And immediately I got choked up. Immediately I thought of my family: my mom, my dad, my brothers. I thought of the family I would have someday. It was like I saw my whole life, how it could be if the Church is true. And then right [...] I heard a voice, very small, very silent [...] 'it's true'. And after that I was like, "Well I guess I know the direction my life's going." [...] We are where we are today because we received those answers. What's nice is that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is today being more and more able to provide proof intellectually that it's true... but ultimately Heavenly Father wants us to know spiritually that it's true. Because you can change your thoughts, you can change your opinions, but you really can't-- it's really hard to change your feelings about something. So if you get a burning within yourself, a feeling, especially that something is true, that changes your whole point of view [...] the course that God wants you to go. [...] Your answer will come, and it will be something you'll never forget.</p><p align="justify"><strong>Kallinos:</strong> So, how do you think that you can know that it's true?</p><p align="justify"><strong>JB:</strong> I think that ultimately I'll find the answer in prayer. I will pray earnestly to God with all of my being to know if it is true, and by persisting in doing so and making sure that I have real intent, pour everything that I am into it, eventually I believe that God will show me - whether it be like that, or whether it be by pointing me in the direction of things that will indicate to me one way or the other whether or not it's true - that God will reveal to me what the answer is.</p><p align="justify"><strong>Kallinos:</strong> Alright. Um, good, that's good, you're on the right track. Um, [...] you read the Bible, we know that you love the Bible, so [...]</p></blockquote><div align="justify">I can't recall exactly what came in at this point, but Kallinos quoted <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/james/2/19#19">James 2:19</a> and started saying things like "belief involves more than just faith", and essentially the gist of his monologue was that since I'm clearly doing everything else right, the problem must be some sort of moral failing, because that's the only thing they can think of that would explain why God hasn't told me that theirs is the One True Church<sup>TM</sup>. In retrospect, the whole general tone of the conversation - well, monologue - had an uncanny resemblance to certain large swaths of the Book of Job. Now, even I found this portion at least somewhat insulting, indicating to me that perhaps Kallinos dozed off when the Missionary Training Center taught the lesson on this little thing called "tact". Tip to LDS missionaries: try to avoid making baseless insinuations that God isn't talking to your prospective convert because your convert is rebelling against God. Instead, maybe you could try something that would go a bit more like this:</div><blockquote><p align="justify">A: Hmm, so you're clearly a believer in the Bible, you believe that Jesus is Son of God, Savior, and Lord... You know what's at stake in this, I can see that you have 'real intent', and you're praying in earnest to God to reveal this to you. Hmmm... may I read a few passages from the Bible with you?</p><p align="justify">B: Sure.</p><p align="justify">A: [select a few passages of moral exhortation] How would you currently rate yourself against this?</p><p align="justify">B: Well, I could always be doing better. But I am abiding by what you call the Law of Chastity and the Word of Wisdom, and I strive to devote myself to following God's commands and living by grace through faith.</p><p align="justify">A: Very good! Well, I can't tell you just what it is that might explain why God isn't answering your prayers, although I'll certainly pray about it and pray for you. In the meantime, the only thing I can think to suggest - and, again, I don't claim to know what's in your heart at all - is to continue working on living up to God's standards insofar as you know them, and I'm sure that when you do so, God will reveal even more to you.</p></blockquote><div align="justify">Not perfect, of course - it still smacks of a bit too much works-righteousness - but at least more tactful and less presumptuous. Kallinos, however, didn't go this route. Instead, what he said was filled with statements like these:</div><ul><li><div align="justify">"You've got a sincere heart, you've got the real intent... but there are lots of people with good intentions that don't really lead to very much."</div></li><li><div align="justify">"You've got a lot of faith [...] and then it comes to the second part, which is repentance. And that's kind of the biggie, and a big preparation step. And that's what we would invite you to start working on now. You have all the faith in the world, that's definitely true, and now you need to start acting upon that. You know, there's a lot of things you could do besides just praying that will lead you to your answer. You know? It is within your capacity to come to church. It is within your capacity to study the [Standard Works (?)] and to pray. It is within your capacity to keep the Word of Wisdom. It is within your capacity to do a lot of other [...] gospel principle [...] right there?"</div></li><li><div align="justify">He went on to cite Stephen R. Covey again to make the point that "the Church is true to you to the extent that you are true to the Church. If you're not being true to the Church, it's not going to be very true to you".</div></li><li><div align="justify">"If you want to know whether this came from Joseph Smith or if this came from God, <em>do it.</em> Okay? More than just praying. You know, <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/moro/10/3-5#3">Moroni 10:3-5</a>, you know, that's a great way to receive revelation, I use it a lot of the time, it does work, sometimes additional effort is required. 'To whom much is given, much is required' [<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/luke/12/48#48">Luke 12:48</a>]. You've been given a lot [...] start acting on it."</div></li><li><div align="justify">"Don't just wait for the answer to come to you; go and look for it. Search for it and keep the commandments of God. You know, don't just read the Book of Mormon for information's sake, read it with the intent of reading what it instructs you to do, and then do accordingly."</div></li></ul><div align="justify">In the course of all of this, Kallinos talked some about how he'd gained a testimony, and how:</div><blockquote><p align="justify">...it's not like the answer came all at once, it's not like it was a grand revelation or [...] a distinct feeling that this is true. That came later. It did come, but it didn't come at first. At first it was simply impressions or feelings that I should do this or I should do that - just little pieces and bits of the truth, you know - [...] and I had seen in the Book of Mormon or Doctrine & Covenants where it says that the Lord teaches you "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little" [<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/28/30#30">2 Nephi 28:30</a>; <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/128/21#21">D&C 128:21</a>]....</p></blockquote><div align="justify">We also discussed a few other passages, like <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/john/7/17#17">John 7:17</a> and <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/7/23-25#23">Alma 7:23-25</a>. Kallinos also grilled me some more about whether I'd really be willing to tithe, things like that. So anyway, after Kallinos was done lecturing me, he asked if I'd come out to their church again soon and I naturally agreed. He then assured me:</div><blockquote><p align="justify">I just want you to know that, as you faithfully live the gospel of Jesus Christ and the principles that were brought forward in this modern dispensation - the dispensation that we know as "the fullness of times" - that you will know it's true.</p></blockquote><div align="justify">And then Kallinos related the story of <a href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Glenn_Beck">Glenn Beck</a>'s conversion, wherein Beck decided to try to disprove the "law of tithing" by following it and watching his life get worse, but instead was confounded when he found himself increasingly blessed by it. And eventually Kallinos qualified his previous lecture by acknowledging that I'm hardly an exceptionally sinful wanton, and he asked if I'd strive to live in accordance with God's commandments insofar as I know them. I said yes, and he replied, "Good, because I know that as you do so, you will receive an answer that it's true [...] because everything that's true is light, and light is discernible, that it's true. Truth has a familiar ring to it." <p></p><p align="justify">(I, on the other hand, would bring to mind passages like <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/jer/17/9#9">Jeremiah 17:9</a> and the simple patent fact that we humans have a nearly endless capacity for self-deception, especially when it comes to following our feelings - and, contrary to what Cresphontes suggested, beliefs obtained by reason are more properly stable than beliefs obtained by feelings. By that I mean that relatively seldom is, "I get a good feeling when I consider this", a good warrant for a belief in something. That's the overall problem that I have with standard LDS epistemology. I have little fundamental complaint at the notion of some beliefs being warranted by religious experience in certain situations, at least not so long as those beliefs are potentially defeasible. If we accept a general rule of, "Religious thoughts that bring a feeling of peace are true; religious thoughts that bring the opposite feelings are false", the result is absolute chaos if we're even a slight bit consistent.)</p><p align="justify">Cresphontes - the more tactful and easygoing of this missionary pair - then talked a bit about the usefulness of setting goals. And then he said something fairly interesting:</p></div><blockquote><p align="justify">In the short time I've gotten to know you, and everything that we've both experienced, I've felt the Spirit probably a little more strongly than I have in my mission in this room right now. You have a wonderful testimony of these truths, you have an open mind, you have a soft heart - your heart isn't hardened, which is wonderful, I wish more people could be like that. I testify to you that as you start to set goals, as you start to make the leap of faith (as many people describe it), that God will prepare every step of your way - especially if this is true, especially if you make that leap. I promise you that as you do this, as you're setting goals, and especially [...] prayer [...] setting goals along with noble works, that those two will go together beautifully and that you <em>will</em> receive your answer. As a set-apart servant of the Lord and his messenger, I can promise you that you will receive one.</p></blockquote><div align="justify">After that was done, I got to hear the story of how Epaphos had come to become a Latter-day Saint. He and his wife were converts from a nominal Lutheran background. One day when he wasn't home, some missionaries had dropped off a copy of the Book of Mormon with his wife, and when he got home, she said to him, "Some men dropped by today, and I think they were sent from God!" He was initially "rebellious", to use his word, and didn't much want to have further contact with them, but the missionaries were very persistent in sticking with him and suggesting times to meet until he couldn't duck them anymore. Eventually he got to the missionary discussions and reached the part where they taught about the LDS doctrine of the spirit's pre-existence, and Epaphos said that it was something that he'd always thought about but that his Lutheran church never discussed. "If we're spiritual, if we have a spirit, where was our spirit then? Before we're here? And I always thought about that, something missing in it, and that closed the gap right there, that was something that was missing, and I-- it was a familiar thing, too, when they taught it." And he went on to discuss some of his own experiences with being blessed through tithing, and then told a story about the second time he went to an LDS temple. (He said that the first time he was there to get his temple marriage and his endowment, it was all so new and strange to him that he doesn't even remember it well any more.) He said that when he sat down in the Celestial Room, "every question that entered my mind was immediately answered. Immediately! With answers I had never even thought of". He said that the questions had ranged from issues with raising his kids to interpretation of assorted scriptural passages. "And I knew the answer was coming from the Holy Spirit, I just knew it, because it was just things that I'd never thought about, never even imagined". He also said that he never forgot it because "it's never happened since, it was just this one time. And I guess God was giving me a special experience to strengthen my testimony. Because I do get answers from the Holy Ghost, just... not that way, a flood of answers". He also mentioned that, since it was nearly three decades ago, he's completely forgotten what the questions actually were. Epaphros went on to talk about how the Spirit doesn't speak to our physical bodies but to our own spirits, and how testimonies usually start out relatively little and grow over time. <p></p><p align="justify">Anyway, the missionaries talked for a bit about their stories, I think - I seem to recall Cresphontes talking about his dad - and we then covered some other topics, and in the process of explaining why I wasn't sure where I was in the Book of Mormon (I'd been going through an audio version), I described how my computer had just completely gone to pot - or, as I described it this time around, that "I guess you could say my computer joined the sons of perdition". And then I mentioned that I'd gotten a new computer recently, but that the upshot is that I no longer was certain what files I'd listened to and what files I hadn't.</p><p align="justify">Cresphontes then said that it had been a privilege talking to me and asked if I had any questions. I said that I did have one that I was curious about after visiting their church last time, and that was why water is used in the sacrament, rather than "something more grape-based" like wine or grape juice. They explained that it had been revealed to Joseph Smith (cf. <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/27">D&C 27</a>) not to use wine in the sacrament, since that would be contrary to the Word of Wisdom. Kallinos, after noting that they don't drink wine since they don't drink alcohol, simply said - in keeping with <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/27/2#2">D&C 27:2</a> - that "it doesn't matter what we eat or drink; honestly, we could drink orange juice and eat a bagel if it came down to it, if we had nothing else, but what matters is that we do it 'with an eye single to the glory of God' and that we do it in remembrance that Jesus has died for our sins". Cresphontes added that in his ward back home, there are some people with gluten allergies, and consequently they have a special tray with rice cakes for the sacramental bread.</p><p align="justify">Eventually things took some interesting turns (I mentioned that very soon I'd be taking part in a big panel discussion on Christianity and homosexuality, so I'd been doing a lot of extra reading and preparation to "speak the truth in love" [<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/eph/4/15#15">Ephesians 4:15</a>]), and I ended up as the recipient of a 'priesthood blessing' at Cresphontes' suggestion. (Kallinos half-rebuked Cresphontes by saying that "we don't solicit blessings", but Epaphos remarked that a person can hardly request one if they don't really know about them. In the end, I requested it.) So all three of them - Kallinos, Cresphontes, and Epaphos - all stood up and gathered around me and laid hands on the top of my head while I remained seated. I had chosen Kallinos to actually deliver the blessing, and so it went something like this:</p></div><blockquote><p align="justify">[JB], in the name of Jesus Christ and by the power of the holy Melchizedek Priesthood which we hold, we give you a blessing of comfort and of peace from your Heavenly Father. [JB], your Heavenly Father is well aware of your circumstances. He loves you. He wants you to be happy, he wants you to experience all the joys and the privilege that comes to his children in this life. He wants you to taste of his love and his mercy in your life. He recognizes the difficulty of the schooling and education that you're going through at this time, and he will bless you with knowledge, with wisdom according to your needs, as you exercise your faith in him and as you turn to him in prayer. [JB], your Heavenly Father wants you to be at peace. He wants you to feel the Spirit. Always be willing to do that which will invite the Spirit. Always be willing to follow your savior Jesus Christ, and he will give unto you peace. Continue in the path that you are walking, because it is the correct path. As (?) you will continue to exercise your faith in Jesus Christ, he will continue to bless (?) you. We leave you with these things in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.</p></blockquote><div align="justify">Anyway, that was how things wound down with our meeting, and as we walked upstairs and out of the chapel, we continued to hear the lovely singing of a large choir that had begun performing a concert about midway through the priesthood blessing. I parted ways with my friends on the sidewalk, looking forward to seeing them again at church the next Sunday.</div>JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-36599633032146302382010-04-02T11:13:00.013-04:002010-04-05T18:51:49.025-04:00JW Chronology Problematized by JW LiteratureYesterday I was reading some of my blog subscriptions, and I stumbled across something new by Mike Felker from <a href="http://www.theapologeticfront.com/">The Apologetic Front</a> blog. (I'd been subscribing to his channel on YouTube for ages, but only recently took a look at the blog.) That something new was <a href="http://www.theapologeticfront.com/2010/04/according-to-watchtower-cd-library-did.html">a bit of research he did</a> that shows - using nothing but literature published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, official literature of Jehovah's Witnesses - that Jerusalem actually did fall in 587 BC, rather than 607 BC as Jehovah's Witnesses idiosyncratically believe. And the reason why this is so important is that their prophetic chronology is really the cornerstone of their religion; if Jerusalem didn't fall in 607 BC, then they can't biblically justify, even with their other eisegetical manuevers, their belief that the <em>parousia</em> occurred in 1914; that belief, however, is the bedrock of JW eschatology and has enormous ramifications on numerous other areas of JW doctrine. So, without further ado, please watch Mike's <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRlsk1DnEE0">excellent video</a>:<br /><br /><center><object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cRlsk1DnEE0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cRlsk1DnEE0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object></center><br />Mike isn't the first one to discover this problem, of course. Although I only watched <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrCleOXkYu0">this other video</a> today (also very well done), <a href="http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/">Carlos Scienza</a> <a href="http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/2010/01/was-jerusalem-destroyed-in-607-bce.html">posted it</a> a few months ago:<br /><br /><center><object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FrCleOXkYu0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FrCleOXkYu0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object></center><br />I'll lay out the case below in a somewhat different way for those whose computers can't handle video so well for some reason or another (and believe me, I sympathize):<br /><ol><li>Babylon fell to the Medes and Persians in 539 BC</li><ul><li>"The outstanding Absolute date from the B.C. period of the Hebrew Scriptures is that for the fall of Babylon as the capital city of the third world power at the hands of Cyrus, king of the Persians, October 13, 539 B.C., Julian calendar (or October 7 by our present Gregorian calendar), which event is referred to at Isaiah 45:1. This date is made absolute by reason of the archaeological discovery and dating of the famous <em>Nabunaid Chronicle</em>, which itself gives a date for the fall of Babylon and which figure specialists have determined equals October 13, 539 B.C., according to the Julian calendar of the Romans" (<em>The Watchtower</em>, 1 February 1955, p. 94)</li><li>"It is well to understand that all Bible chronology dates for events prior to 539 B.C. must be figured backward from the Absolute date of 539 B.C." (<em>The Watchtower</em>, 1 February 1955, p. 95)</li><li>"One such fixed or absolute date is in connection with the events recorded in the fifth chapter of Daniel, verses one to thirty-one. That was concerning the time when the Medes and the Persians under Cyrus the Great broke up Belshazzar's notorious carousal, capture the city of Babylon, and overthrew the Third World Empire. The year was 539 B.C.E. on the Gregorian calendar, four years after the Buddhist Era began in India" (<em>The Watchtower</em>, 15 August 1968, p. 490)</li><li>"Recognized authorities of today accept 539 B.C.E. without any question as the year Babylon was overthrown by Cyrus the Great" (<em>The Watchtower</em>, 15 August 1968, p. 491)</li></ul><li>Nabonidus (<em>Nabu-na'id</em>) ruled from 556 BC to 539 BC</li><ul><li>"Last supreme monarch of the Babylonian Empire; father of Belshazzar. On the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have ruled some 17 years (556-539 B.C.E.)" (<em>Insight on the Scriptures</em> 2:457)</li><li>"Nabonidus' ascension to the throne followed the assassination of Labashi-Marduk" (<em>Insight on the Scriptures</em> 2:458)</li></ul><li>Labashi-Marduk ruled in 556 BC</li><ul><li>"[Neriglissar's] underage son Labashi-Marduk, a vicious boy, succeeded him, and was assassinated within nine months" (<em>The Watchtower</em>, 1 January 1965, p. 29)</li></ul><li>Neriglissar (<em>Nergal-shar-usur</em>) ruled from 560 BC to 556 BC</li><ul><li>"[Evil-merodach] was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar, who reigned for four years, which time he spent mainly in building operations" (<em>The Watchtower</em>, 1 January 1965, p. 29)</li></ul><li>Evil-merodach (<em>Amel-Marduk</em>) ruled from 562 BC to 560 BC</li><ul><li>"Evil-merodach reigned two years and was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar..." (<em>The Watchtower</em>, 1 January 1965, p. 29)</li></ul><li>Nebuchadnezzar (<em>Nabu-kudurri-usur</em>) ruled before Evil-merodach from 605 BC to 562 BC</li><ul><li>"The Babylonian king who succeeded Nebuchadnezzar to the throne in 581 B.C.E" (<em>Insight on the Scriptures</em> 1:773)</li><ul><li>Note that the date of 581 BC is based on JW belief in 607 BC, rather than the other way around. The same erroneous date of 581 BC is asserted elsewhere: "Amel-Marduk (Evil-merodach) as the oldest son succeeded Nebuchadnezzar to the throne in 581 B.C.E." (<em>The Watchtower</em>, 1 January 1965, p. 29). I'll discuss this issue further in a bit; for the moment, however, note that everything else up until this point shows that the date of 581 B.C.E. is inconsistent with other statements accepted by Jehovah's Witnesses.</li></ul><li>"Nebuchadnezzar, who reigned for 43 years, headed a dynasty that ruled over the Babylonian Empire" (<em>Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy!</em>, p. 50)</li></ul><li>Jerusalem fell in 587 BC</li><ul><li>"Finally, in 607 B.C.E., on Tammuz (June-July) 9 in the 11th year of Zedekiah's reign (Nebuchadnezzar's 19th year if counting from his accession year or his 18th regnal year), a breach was made in Jerusalem's wall" (<em>Insight into the Scriptures</em> 2:481)</li><ul><li>Note again that, while the publication falsely asserts the year to have been 607 BC, the important aspect of this quote is that it places the event in the 18th year of Nebuchadnezzar's reign. And, since it follows conclusively from other statements admitted in JW publications that Nebuchadnezzar's reign had to begin in 605 BC, the year of Jerusalem's fall can only be 587 BC--<em>quod erat demonstrandum</em>.</li></ul></ul></ol><p>Every single quote involved here is available on the Watchtower Library CD-ROM. Anyone who has a copy can verify all quotes used here; I did, and they all check out solidly. It's undeniable--whatever arguments Jehovah's Witnesses use to attempt to establish a 607 BC date for the fall of Jerusalem, the fact remains that their own literature contains every single fact that, put together, show irrefutably that Jerusalem fell in 587 BC. But what about the statements that Evil-merodach's reign began in 581 BC, or that the fall of Jerusalem really did happen in 607 BC? It has to be noted that these are assertions inconsistent with others that appeared in JW literature. Furthermore, remember that it was admitted that every date before 539 BC has to be calculated backwards from 539 BC, not another date. The date of 581 BC can only be obtained by counting <strong>forwards</strong> from 607 BC, which in turn relies on a highly questionable jump backwards from 537 BC, rather than 539 BC. On the other hand, the date of 587 BC, as shown above, is derived from counting backwards from 539 BC through all the Babylonian rulers to show that Jehovah's Witnesses cannot consistently avoid the implication that Nebuchadnezzar's reign only began in 605 BC--the date universally accepted by all non-JW sources. Only Jehovah's Witnesses deny this, and as shown above they must do so inconsistently. Now, lest a JW apologist attempt to say that certain relevant names have been omitted here, consider the complete list of relevant Babylonian rulers, as excerpted from yet another JW publication:</p><blockquote></blockquote><blockquote>Nebuchadnezzar<br />Evil-merodach, 582 B.C.E<br />Neriglissar<br />Labashi-Marduk<br />Nabonidus<br />Belshazzar, died 539 B.C.E. (<em>The Watchtower</em>, 15 June 1960, p. 377)</blockquote><blockquote></blockquote><blockquote></blockquote><p>So what we have here is a complete list of rulers. But Nabonidus, as Jehovah's Witnesses must admit, started ruling in 556 BC. Labashi-Marduk ruled for just nine months, while Neriglissar ruled for four years. At most, that could push the chronology back to 561 (though actually 560) BC for the start of Neriglissar's rule; but, since authoritative JW literature has already shown that Neriglissar ruled for only two years, rather than over two decades, there is simply no way to associate the year 582/1 BC with Evil-merodach, which ruins the proposed JW chronology. And the calculations that do so are simply impeccable.</p><p>And lest some JW apologist try to say that the calculations in the theocratic literature that demonstrate the 587 BC date were simply incorrect, consider that the entry on "Chronology" in <em>Insight on the Scriptures</em> indicates, fairly plainly, that their calculations are, for all intents and purposes, infallible, since they refuse to distinguish their understanding of the timeline from what the Bible actually says.</p><p>So what's the bottom line here? We have both a firm anchor point (539 BC), a complete order of consecutive reigns extending throughout the period in question, and lengths for each reign. Mathematically, without rejecting at least one of those three, there is simply no way to escape the truth: Jerusalem fell in 587 BC, thereby invalidating a substantial block of JW doctrine. That is, the only way to avoid the conclusion is to reject one of the following three propositions:</p><ul><li>We have a firm anchor point in 539 BC.</li><li>We have a complete order of consecutive reigns, without considerable gaps, stretching from the destruction of Jerusalem to 539 BC.</li><li>We have roughly accurate figures for the length of each reign of which we have record (that is, the reigns of Nebuchadnezzar, Evil-merodach, Neriglissar, Labashi-marduk, and Nabonidus).</li></ul><p>To deny the first is not open to Jehovah's Witnesses at all; it's too firmly entrenched in what they believe. What about the second? It doesn't seem so. Remember, not only does <em>The Watchtower</em> give what purports to be a complete "chronological chart" that admits of no gaps, but their discussions of the individual reigns doesn't appear to give any place to gaps beyond a few months or so at the most. Certainly nowhere to stuff two decades of either unknown rulers or anarchy! Note also that many of the figures in question came to power by killing their predecessors, which precludes the possibility of additional intervening rulers. So, how about the third? Could a Jehovah's Witness be justified here in denying that the reign lengths are accurate? Again, the answer must be no. The only candidates up for revision are Evil-merodach, Neriglissar, and Labashi-marduk. Assuming for the sake of argument that Jerusalem fell in 607 BC, we'd have to place the beginning of Evil-merodach's reign in 582/1 BC, and the end of Labashi-Marduk's reign in 557/6 BC, since <em>Insight on the Scriptures</em> unequivocally places the start of Nabonidus' reign in 556 BC; the <em>Babylonian Chronicles</em>, after all, definitely places the fall of Babylon as occurring in the 17th year of Nabonidus' reign (the particular tablet in question is the <em>Nabunaid Chronicle</em> cited by <em>The Watchtower</em> in one of the quotes above). So, then, we have to somehow cram at least 24 years into these three reigns, which <em>The Watchtower</em> has instead affirmed to have taken less than seven years! This, like the other two theoretical possibilities, will never work. (I also add that I have before me right now a translation of a Babylonian document from the reign of Nabonidus that makes clear that, at the very least, Neriglissar's reign was four years--see J. B. Pritchard, ed., <em>Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament</em>, p. 312. The text also explicitly affirms only 104 years from "the time of Ashurbanipal, king of Assyria, to the 6th year of Nabonidus, king of Babylon", which is also inconsistent with the 607 BC date for the destruction of Jerusalem under Nebuchadnezzar. I'll also mention, for those who might be interested, that other texts of the period mention Neriglissar and Labashi-Marduk by name.)</p><p>My challenge to all Jehovah's Witnesses is this: show how one of these three possibilities is genuinely viable. If none of them are, and thus if all three propositions above are true, then the data given in Watchtower publications shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jehovah's Witness chronology is in significant error, thus undermining JW teachings.</p>JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com21tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-28415360368727347122010-03-14T17:18:00.012-04:002010-04-23T11:49:42.902-04:00A First Visit to the LDS ChurchSo this morning I made sure to get up in time for a rendezvous with a family from the ward near my college; since I don't have any transportation on campus, my missionary friends had kindly arranged me a ride today. They arrived pretty close to on time, and it wasn't a terribly long ride to the church. From the outside, it looked quite a bit like a stereotypical American Protestant church, but without a cross atop the steeple and without any stained glass. Although we'd anticipated being a bit late to sacrament meeting, we were in luck--it hadn't started yet.<br /><br />When I entered the "chapel" - which in other churches would be termed the "sanctuary", ordinarily - it didn't take long for Kallinos to spot me. As (apparently) the only missionaries serving their mission at this ward, he and Demophon were sitting up front, since Demophon was playing the organ. The chapel was perhaps half the size - at best - of my own church's sanctuary, but I've come to realize over the past couple of years just how large my church is compared to some. The congregation here was of mediocre size; if I had to hazard a guess - and I'm terrible at estimating the size of a crowd - I'd venture anywhere from 60 to 70 people. As I looked around, it was mostly small families, largely couples, and I saw one older man with a magnificently full beard--especially striking considering <a href="http://johnwmorehead.blogspot.com/2010/03/mormon-culture-and-evil-beard.html">the status of facial hair in contemporary LDS subculture</a>. Anyway, it wasn't especially long before sacrament meeting got started, with "Amythaon", the second counselor in the bishopric, presiding. (Speaking of facial hair, by the way, Amythaon has a goatee.) Like essentially any church service, it started with a welcome and various announcements; however, a major difference soon became very apparent. With respect to a number of announcements, Amythaon asked for a show of hands of those able to sustain various motions. Sacrament meeting struck me as a hybrid of a Protestant church service, a mass, and a committee meeting, to be perfectly honest. Not that I'm necessarily complaining, I suppose, since I frankly enjoy committee meetings far more than any sane person does (I certainly don't fall into that category), but it was strange. Is this normal? (Also, I should mention the screaming babies. Several babies screaming throughout basically everything.)<br /><br />Anyway, the first hymn, "Does the Journey Seem Long", was #127 in the <em><a href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Hymns_of_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints_%281985_book%29">Hymns of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints</a></em>. All I remember is that it struck me as... well, to be honest, terrible. Now, a major factor was that as far as I could hear, no one was singing it very robustly at all, nor were we terribly synchronized. As for the actual music and/or lyrics, I'd be hard-pressed to say--it might well have been quite beautiful in itself, for all I know--but singing in sacrament meeting was a somewhat painful experience. After the invocation, we sang hymn #176 ("'Tis Sweet to Sing the Matchless Love") as the sacrament hymn. Again, not exactly a musical performance worth remembering--and that's not chiefly a criticism of the LDS church by any means, since I'm pretty sure that in a singing competition, I'd lose to a coprolalia-afflicted raccoon being slowly tortured with a thousand tiny, sharp icicles.<br /><br />So then we had the administration of the sacrament, and a number of priests came forward to administer it. By "priests", of course, I mean boys - teenagers at the most, and definitely no girls allowed - considered to hold the Melchizedek Priesthood. First over the bread, and then over the water - not wine, not grape juice, but water, which is a move I may never quite grasp - they recited the liturgical prayers prescribed since the early days of the LDS Church:<br /><blockquote><p>O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.</p><p>O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this water to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.</p></blockquote>They did the bread first, and then the water. The priests carried the sacramental elements in specially designed silver trays, which they passed down rows. I thought that this was somewhat a shame. As I watched it pass from hand to hand, it seemed unbelievably rushed and perhaps a tad mechanical. There was no time to linger over it at all. The water, perhaps, was even worse. (I will admit that, when it came to the bread, I still felt uplifted in spirit simply from the aroma of it, which connects me viscerally to the many moving experiences I've had taking communion, even though I of course didn't partake here.) First of all, the priest for my section of the chapel wasn't paying close attention to the way in which he was holding the tray, and as a result water was spilling out onto the floor--not exactly a good start when it comes to a substance that's supposed to be representing the blood of Jesus Christ at the time. They used the same little cups that are fairly common for communion in many Protestant churches, and I have to say that seeing them filled with water was a wholly alien feeling. It's amazing what a difference that made, even visually. It was just so difficult for me to associate this act with communion at all. What's more, because the tray was a thing in motion and the used cups had to be deposited into a special receptacle in the tray, it was even more rushed than the bread. One would have to take the tray, grab a cup, immediately down the water, and quickly slip the cup into the receptacle while handing it off to the next person--all ideally within maybe two or three seconds.<br /><br />When all of that was finally done, we were supposed to have two speakers, but the first hadn't yet arrived, and so the second speaker, Amythaon, went first. (I'll also add that since Kallinos and Demophon didn't have to be confined to the front of the chapel anymore, they joined me in my row.) Things had been interesting... up until this point. I have no idea exactly what Amythaon was talking about, but I think it'd take a while to draft a list; the topic seemed to jump around all willy-nilly like, see? To be perfectly honest, during the talk - which perhaps lasted over a half-hour - I struggled very hard to stay awake. Since I hadn't gotten much sleep the night before (and Daylight Savings Time was no help), nor did I have anything to eat in the past 18 hours or so, that may not exactly have been the sacrament meeting's fault. Nonetheless, Amythaon - and I could tell that he was a nice guy with a decent sense of humor - nearly put me to sleep. Then, after hymn #241 ("Count Your Blessings"), the other speaker - who had forgotten to change her clock and was thus later to church than she ever had been before - gave perhaps a 15-minute talk, during which she basically burst into very sentimental tears over how God had given her strength to carry through some difficult times. After hymn #142 ("Sweet Hour of Prayer"), the sacrament meeting closed with the benediction.<br /><br />All in all, sacrament meeting lasted almost as long as a service at my home church. But... there was more. After a bit of a break, I accompanied Kallinos and Demophon to Gospel Principles class (also known as <a href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Gospel_Essentials_Class">Gospel Essentials class</a>, but since they called it "Gospel Principles class", so will I) in one of the classrooms in the church. There weren't too many people in there. Kallinos handed me a copy of <em>Gospel Principles</em>, and as it turns out, it's the very latest edition. The teacher of the class ("Polyxena") had recently returned from a trip to Utah, from the sounds of it. Today in Gospel Principles class, we covered the tenth chapter of <em>Gospel Principles</em>, which deals with the subject of Scripture. [Note: From here on out, when relating dialogue in which I'm not sure who was speaking at some point, or don't want to specify, I'll just mark them with an "O" or something like that.] Elder Kallinos kicked off with prayer:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Kallinos:</strong> Heavenly Father, we thank thee for this day and we thank thee so much that-- for the opportunity to be here this Sabbath day in Gospel Principles class, we thank thee, Father, for being able to feel thy Spirit and learn from it and learn what we can do to better follow the gospel of Jesus Christ and to incorporate it into our lives, and help us, Father, to learn what we need to today, we pray in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, amen.</p><p><strong>All:</strong> Amen.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Okay, today's lesson is on the Scriptures. I know I've said repeatedly in this class that I love how the book [i.e., <em>Gospel Principles</em>] builds upon itself. And so last week your lesson was on prophets. And prophets are the Lord's mouthpiece on earth, and where those words get recorded is in the scriptures. If you recall when we talked about the Fall and being spiritually cut off from Heavenly Father, there are ways that we've discussed that we can still maintain a relationship with him. One of them is prayer, another one is listening to the Spirit, we talked about those. Today we're gonna talk about the scriptures, which are the recorded words that Heavenly Father wanted us to know and so when we turn to the sScriptures, that also gives us the opportunity to hear God's word for us, and it was mentioned today--hey ['O']-- umm, it was mentioned today in sacrament meeting about, um, the scriptures came up a couple of times, didn't they? They are-- even though I think Sister ['O'] said, even though sometimes the stories in the scriptures have to do with people that lived on the planet in different times in a different culture, their trials are the same, they've experienced the same frustration, the same setbacks that we experience today, and so we can always turn to those stories and find comfort in our own lives as we ponder the things that helped them get through their trials. What are some of the blessings that we enjoy today because we have the scriptures so readily available to us? Is there anything that I haven't already mentioned? Yep.</p><p><strong>O:</strong> We have the written word in book form--</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Yeah--</p><p><strong>O:</strong> And that's something that, some places they don't have it or their government comes down on 'em for having it.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Yeah, you know, we take-- I think sometimes we, we, uh--not us in this room, I mean "we" as in this nation--take the scriptures for granted because we've always had them in our lives, haven't we? Up until-- what was it, was it Martin Luther, back during the Reformation that occurred in Europe, what, just a few hundred years ago--there <em>were</em> no sets of scriptures! People didn't have scriptures in their home, they just didn't, they-- they existed in monasteries and-- you know there weren't that many written copies of the scriptures, they were on probably papyrus and, um, like in Alexandria, in the archives, in the Greek archives--</p><p><strong>Demophon:</strong> Yeah, and when people copied it, they had to do it by hand.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Yeah, think about that! Can you imagine having to write <em>that</em> out by hand? So they didn't have the written word during the-- has anyone ever played the game "Whisper Down the Lane" when you were a kid?</p><p><strong>O:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Kallinos:</strong> Telephone.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Telephone? Is that what it's called? [...] in all different forms. Basically the point of that game is, you have people in a circle or a row and you tell somebody something in their ear quietly, and they have to whisper it down the line, and what usually happens when it gets to the end?</p><p><strong>O:</strong> Totally different story.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> It's a <em>totally</em> different story! And it's not intentional, is it? It's just, you know, you might miss a word here or there, or you might explain it slightly differently, but by the time it gets passed down, it's almost unrecognizable from what it started out as. Another thing that I think about too is the advent of the copier. Have you ever seen a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy? Holy cow, you can barely read it. I had to take a test, I had to take a test about four years ago to be an Italian genealogist, and, you know, I had just learned Italian not much longer before I took the test, and the first part of the test they gave me twenty-five documents in Italian that had been on a microfilm of a book that was a hundred years old. They took a picture of the original book, which had faded a bit, and they photocopied it... since 1970. Repeatedly! For the last forty years. And that's what they gave me and said, "Here, translate this." It was barely legible, it was like looking at Morse code or something or Braille, little dots on the page, and so this is what happens when you don't have things available like that: it-- it's left for interpretation, and quality degenerates over time. And so we have a <em>huge </em>blessing to have the scriptures <em>so</em> available to us--and I've just been thinking of all the different ways that we have available to us, so, okay, I have my quad here, I can flip it open and read any scripture I want. I have a smart phone, I have a scripture application that has the scriptures on it, I have the Mormon Channel app which I can listen to somebody read the scriptures to me, I can go out to the Internet on this and I can go to lds.org and I can look up the scriptures there. We have such availability of the scriptures, there should never be an excuse of why we wouldn't be able to, um, look into those. So-- so the blessing that we have to have these words available to us, um-- how do we get scripture? How do we get scripture?</p><p><strong>O:</strong> [...] men were directed by the Holy Spirit, and they recorded it.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> They recorded it.</p><p><strong>O:</strong> Also with Joseph Smith and the plates.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Yeah, he actually did a transcription from the original record. Um, the reason that we have scriptures, it says here in our lesson that "from the beginning the Lord has commanded His prophets"--which we learned about last week--"to keep a record of His revelations and His dealings with His children. He said: 'I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their words, according to that which is written' [<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/29/11#11">2 Nephi 29:11</a>]" [(<em>Gospel Principles</em>, p. 45)]. So that-- So that's a big expectation, isn't it, that the Lord has put upon us? He has commanded people to record these revelations, and then he commands <em>us</em> to read them, to apply them to our lives. They're not just nice books that, you know, you sit on a table. That was from my previous life before I joined the Church, and I have friends, you know, who are not members now, and I'll go into their homes and I see their lovely set of scriptures on the endtable with the doily underneath it, you know, "Holy Bible" and it might have their family tree in it, and that's where it stays. It's just a decoration like something you would put on your mantlepiece. That's not the intent that the Lord had for us. You can't sleep on this as a pillow and learn the scriptures, you have to open them up. So, ours look a little different, don't they, than most sets of scriptures that you see, and there's a reason for this. We have four separate sets of scriptures that makes up the LDS canon, and we're gonna delve into each one of these today a little bit and talk about what's contained in each of these books of scriptures. The first one, everyone should be familiar with, the Holy Bible. What parts make up the Holy Bible?</p><p><strong>O:</strong> The Old and the New Testaments.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> The Old and the New Testament. Alright, what does the Old Testament contain?</p><p><strong>Demophon:</strong> The writings of the ancient prophets up to the time of the-- the years before the coming of Jesus Christ.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Okay. So, it starts from the beginning of time, doesn't it, with Adam and Eve and the creation, and it goes up to, what is it, about four hundred years before Christ?</p><p><strong>Kallinos:</strong> Something like that, yeah.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> And of course you know what happens often in the Old Testament is, they're not-- they don't keep their covenant, so generally speaking somebody comes in and takes them all captive and makes slaves out of them, overruns their cities and they become captives. And so this is what happens during that time period, the Israelites became captives of, I think the Babylonians? The Persians?</p><p><strong>O:</strong> The Assyrians-- [I think he also muttered something about Alexander the Great]</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> The Assyrians--take your pick. Somebody over there took them captive and they-- there was no canon of scripture in the Bible that-- between Malachi and the four hundred years that the Per-- that, during the four-hundred-year period before Christ comes. And then we have the New Testament. And the New Testament contains what?</p><p><strong>O:</strong> Four Gospels.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> The four Gospels--</p><p><strong>Kallinos:</strong> The epistles from the apostles to the believers.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Right, right. Those were generally letters and things that the apostles-- and they were communicating with people that they had taught. Think about the New Testament, um, it starts at the Gospels talking about the life of Christ, it talks about him calling his apostles, about sending them out into the world to teach the gospel. Who did they teach first?</p><p><strong>Demophon:</strong> The Jews.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> They taught the Jews first, and then where did they go?</p><p><strong>O:</strong> The Gentiles.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> To the Gentiles, they went-- they left the holy land and they went out into the surrounding areas and into places like Greece and Rome and, um, around that Mediterranean area, probably into the areas of, like, Turkey and Macedonia. So because they didn't have the luxury of things like telephone and Internet and Facebook, they would have to travel--sometimes for many months--to get out and teach the people, so what they would do is, they would go out and they would set up the church in that area--kind of like the missionaries do today, they go out and they teach the people--people join the church, they set up local leadership, and then they have to leave. They don't have a sattelite broadcast from headquarters or all those things, and they didn't have a lot of written word, so oftentimes it required the apostles to write letters back where they would write and have questions. And so a lot of the New Testament that you'll see are letters that the apostles wrote back to these areas where they had gone out and proselyted [<em>sic</em>] and set up the church to help them clarify things that they didn't always understand. And so, um, I think it's amazing, when I study the New Testament and I think about the fledgling Christian church and how difficult it must have been for them to not have really a central leadership and have no way to, um, have that contact where they could continue learning the precepts and learning the organization of the church. And it amazes me that it continued to grow. Ummm, so those-- those are the parts of the New Testament-- the Old Testament and the New Testament that comprise the Bible. [...] One thing that I do want to touch on is, there are some parts of the Bible that Joseph Smith was required to go back and correct, because just like that game "Whisper Down the Lane" or Telephone", over time and over translation, you figure that this was written in ancient languages and over the years it's been translated and re-translated and re-translated, and sometimes if you speak more than one language you know sometimes it's not always possible to get an <em>exact</em> meaning, is it? And so something that I know in English, so I would say in Italian, it's not quite the same. Sometimes I'll watch a movie in Italian and I'll watch the subtitles and I giggle to myself because I think, "Well that's not what he just said. It's <em>close</em>, but it's not what he just said."</p><p><strong>Demophon:</strong> And you've also got different denotations and connotations [...] hear a word, it evokes different emotion, and that same word translated into the other language just doesn't mean the same--</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Yeah. And so what happens if, look, let's start, say you guys speak Spanish, okay, so let's start, you have something in English and translate it into Spanish, right? What happens if I come along and take your Spanish and translate it into, like, Russian? And then that guy in Russia, he wants to translate it into, like, you know, New Guinea or something? It's not going to look exactly the same as it did when I first told it to you in English, is it?</p><p><strong>O:</strong> No.</p><p><strong>Kallinos:</strong> Especially if I'm not inspired by God.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> And that really is the crux, isn't it? And so there were <em>some</em> scriptures that Joseph Smith was inspired-- some passages that he was inspired to <em>correct</em>. And they are called the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible, and if you have a set of Church scriptures, if you look at the footnotes, oftentimes you'll see "JST", and that's the Joseph Smith Translation. You can flip to the Joseph Smith Translation, it's usually after the Bible dictionary, and you can see the scripture. And so they're in here, it's mostly the New Testament, um, and it may just be some little tweak of a word or a phrase that helps to clarify the original intent of that scripture. Okay, so the second book we have contained in here is the Book of Mormon, and this was, as we just talked about, transcribed from plates that Joseph Smith was directed to go and dig up. Those plates were written in a reformed Egyptian, and the reason why they were written in that language and not in Hebrew which is probably what they spoke, is because the reformed Egyptian characters were less wordy, they could fit more of them on the plates. Can you imagine, like, having to hammer out a piece of metal and then carve in what you were writing? So it really helps to keep that simple.</p><p><strong>Demophon:</strong> So, like, if I said, "Please open your big, brown book and dust off the pages," you'd just-- you could say that in Hebrew and then in English, or reformed Egyptian, you would say, "Open the book."</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Yeah. So it was a condensed, more condensed language, easier to be able to put on these plates. The Book of Mormon spans about a thousand years, starts about six hundred years before Christ was born, which takes us in parallel with the Old Testament to, I think the time of Jeremiah the prophet, and goes up to about four hundred years after his death. We often are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the gospel. Does anybody know what that means, "contain the <em>fullness</em> of the gospel"?</p><p></p><p><strong>O:</strong> I think [...] ancient people's history?</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Okay, it does contain the ancient peoples' history. Think about what we've talked about with the problems we have with the Bible.</p><p><strong>Demophon:</strong> The Book of Mormon explains the gospel, teaches the gospel, more purely, more simply, more directly than the Bible does, and it was only translated once, so there's a lot less, you know, margin of error.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Right. There were no-- the other thing about the Bible, the word "Bible" just means a collection of books, and what it is is just a collection of writings, and if you go to different churches around the world you have all-- like, we use the King James Version, but some Catholics use a Catholic version of the Bible and it contains other books like the Maccabees, the Book of Wisdom, it contains extra psalms, it has extra writings in it that the Catholics deem to be canon for them, and so they've added them. I think the Russian Bible has books that the Catholic Bible doesn't have and the King James Version doesn't have, and so there's lots of versions of the Bible that are collections of writings. Um, I-- this is one of the reasons why in the Articles of Faith we say we believe the Bible "insofar as it is translated correctly" because, um, and that we don't believe that it's solely the only canon of scriptures, it's not the only Word of God that's out there, it just happens to be the collection of books that a council agreed upon at that time. Were there other writings? Most likely. Um, are there writings that are still out there that haven't been discovered? It's very possible. Very possible. The Bible as we have it today is what was assembled at, I believe in the Council of Nicea during the Constantine's days [<em>sic</em>], and so that just happened to be the collection of books. So we don't know that it contains the fullness of the gospel; but the Book of Mormon, we know it does. We know it does. It contains <em>all</em> of the teachings of Christ, and the way that he set up his church when he was here on earth. And again, it was only translated one time from the original source. Yes, the Book of Mormon <em>exists</em> in many different languages, but we translated it from one language, the original language that we have it in, which is in English, and we translate it into different languages so that people can have this book. But we don't translate it from English into Spanish and from Spanish into Greek and from Greek into Russian and from Russian into Chinese and from Chinese into Portuguese. It's always only translated a single time. And so it's a very pure-- as you said, it's very simple, it's a very pure version of the scriptures. Um, one of the things it says on the title page of the Book of Mormon is that it's "the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book". That's a very powerful statement, isn't it? Ezra Taft Benson, who was a prophet of the Church about forty years ago, "helped us understand how the Book of Mormon is the keystone of our religion" [(<em>Gospel Principles</em>, p. 46)]--does everybody know what a keystone is? Before I start talking about it? We're in the Keystone State, aren't we? Okay, the keystone, it's shaped like this, so think of a square but wider at the top, smaller at the bottom.</p><p><strong>O:</strong> Triangle.</p><p><strong>Kallinos:</strong> Trapezoid.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> And ancient architects discovered that when you want to build an archway, in order for it not to collapse you put the keystone in there. And what does it do?</p><p><strong>Kallinos:</strong> Holds it all together.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Holds it all together, right, so the arch doesn't collapse. It's a specially formed stone that is the foundation of that arch and that, without it, everything would fall apart. So it's a <em>very</em> apt description of the Book of Mormon. But Ezra Taft Benson said there's "three ways in which the Book of Mormon is the keystone of our religion. It is (first) the keystone in our witness of Christ. It is the keystone of our doctrine. (And) it is the keystone of testimony. The Book of Mormon is the keystone in our witness of [Jesus] Christ, who is Himself the cornerstone of everything we do" [(cf. <em>ibid.</em>) Parenthesized words are additions by Polyxena, while bracketed ones are printed in the text but omitted verbally. Words bracketed in the text are not bracketed here]--he is often referred to, isn't he, Jesus, as the cornerstone, he has been referred to as the keystone--"It bears witness of His reality with power and clarity.... It broadens"--this is on page 47, if you're looking at the book--"It broadens our understanding[s] of the doctrines of salvation.... The Book of Mormon... was written for our day.... In it we find a pattern for preparing for the Second Coming" [(cf. <em>Gospel Principles</em>, pp. 46-47)]. The people that lived oftentimes in Scriptures, the people that lived during the time that the book was recorded, were not the beneficiaries of what was being written; they were living it. This book was written for us; it came forward in our time, in this dispensation. "The Book of Mormon teaches us truth and bears testimony of Christ.... But there is something more. There is a power in the book which will begin to flow into your lives the moment you begin a serious study of the book. You will find greater power to resist temptation. You will find power to avoid deception. You will find the power to stay on the strait and narrow path. The scriptures are called 'the words of life,' and nowhere is that more true than it is (in) the Book of Mormon.... 'Every Latter-day Saint should make the study of this book a lifetime pursuit'" [(cf. <em>Gospel Principles</em>, p. 47)]. I have a friend who's been studying the Book of Mormon and the Church for almost a year now, and it took him about four months to work through the Book of Mormon. And it's fascinating to me, as we have these daily e-mails back and forth, to see him changing. And when I was in Salt Lake City last week, I was talking to my friends about him, and I was reviewing some of the e-mails with them, just kind of grabbing one here or there that I felt was important, and I thought it was really interesting to me to see the transformation in this individual over the time that he was studying the Book of Mormon, the truths that were revealed to him, the way that he understood his faith was profound, and I am just so amazed at watching that, I mean it's sometimes easier to see that in someone else than it is in ourselves, especially if we're in the middle of going through it, we don't often have that perspective, but it's really easy when we see it through someone else. And so it's just been really great to see as he applies those principles in his life, watching that transformation for him, and so I know what Ezra Taft Benson says is true, that you will find great power in these scriptures. Does anyone have any questions about the Book of Mormon, before I move on to Doctrine and Covenants?</p><p>[<em>silence</em>]</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Okay, so the Book of Mormon was written by ancient peoples here in America, it was written for our time. We also have another canon of scripture called "Doctrine and Covenants". And this is a collection of modern revelation, and I like to think of it-- when I was looking at this lesson, I started thinking of Doctrine and Covenants-- if the Book of Mormon and the Bible and especially the New Testament are more like the doctrine of the Church, I think of Doctrine and Covenants more like the operational manual. Would you agree? Elders, would you agree?</p><p><strong>Demophon and Kallinos:</strong> Mmhmm.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> It's sort of the operational manual because it tells us things like... it talks about the organization of the Church, it defines offices of the priesthood and their functions, um, it talks a lot about, um, it talks a lot about the work we do for the dead in there. It really goes into detail about why we do it, why it is important, and it really gets into, like I said, the operations of things. Some sections of Doctrine and Covenants contain prophecies of things to come. God has commanded it to us to study his revelations in Doctrine and Covenants, he says, "Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled" [(<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/1/37#37">D&C 1:37</a>)], and it's really funny because I got an e-mail when I woke up this morning, my friend sent it to me at six o'clock this morning and I thought, "This is so great, it's perfect for my lesson today." He, uh, he hasn't joined the Church though I bought him a quad because he's in such a serious study of the scriptures that I thought it would be beneficial to him 'cause he likes to cross-reference everything on the footnotes, and so he started reading Doctrine and Covenants, and I asked him-- he said that he was reading this while he was donating blood yesterday and so I asked him last night, I said, "What section are you on?", and he said he was in section 9 and 10, and this is what he said about it, this is a guy, he read the Book of Mormon last year and he's worked his way-- he's working his way through the Old Testament, I think he's just about up to Isaiah, and in his spare time when he's not in the deep study of the actual Old Testament, he's been reading Doctrine and Covenants, and this is what he said to me, and I thought this was <em>so</em> profound: "I found it interesting to have such a conversational tone about what was going on between God and Joseph Smith and ultimately to Oliver Cowdery. However, now having read a good bit of the Old Testament, I'm not so surprised of this. It just 'works'", he put it in quotes. When you-- when you have put yourself into a study of the scriptures, you will start seeing patterns, patterns of the way God communicates with man, the way God communicates with the prophet that he's established on the earth, you will see that pattern repeated over and over and over and over again. When-- when he first started reading the Old Testament, he said to me, "I never even bothered with the Old Testament because, well, there's nothing important in there for us in our times, right? Those are all the laws and Mosaic laws, we don't live the Mosaic Law anymore, what does that have to do with anything, why even bother with the Old Testament? It doesn't even talk about Christ." And I said, "What? The <em>entire</em> Old Testament is about Christ! <em>Everything</em> in the Old Testament speaks of Christ, it prophesies of Christ, it's a similitude of Christ! Everything in the Old Testament, if you go back and you look at it, you will see that everything in the Old Testament is like a big red flashing arrow pointing to Christ! That's what you're gonna find." And that is exactly what he found in his study of the Old Testament, and now when he goes back and he says, "Now I want to go back and read the Book of Mormon again, because I really got the Book of Mormon the first time but now that I got the Old Testament I want to go back and read the Book of Mormon so I can see even more of how much it works!" And now that he's reading Doctrine and Covenants, he's getting that same feeling: "God speaks to man through a prophet, I get it, I get it, it's true." And now if he would just join the Church! He's close, he's close. He's, he's-- lemme just tell you a little, this guy, he's a professor, he just got his doctorate at Johns Hopkins University, he's very smart, he was the valedictorian of my high school graduating class, he was one of the smartest people I ever knew. And this is his, this is his challenge, he's so smart he wants to figure everything out before he makes the decision. And I would just all laugh, don't we, because you know, you can spend the whole rest of your life studying this, and you will never, ever have all the answers. You will never have it all figured out. So I keep hoping that he gets there and he's like, "Okay, I know enough, I know enough to make a decision." So anyway, we'll keep praying for him. Alright, so in our last few minutes I want to talk a little about the last book that we have in our canon, this is called the Pearl of Great Price. What does the "pearl of great price" mean? It's from, it's from the scriptures, what's the "pearl of great"-- think about pearls, they're not a gem but they're hard to come by, aren't they?</p><p><strong>O:</strong> Mmhmm, it's a treasure.</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> It's a treasure, isn't it?</p><p><strong>O:</strong> Yes, and it's what we should sell everything we have to buy that treasure. And it parallels on the--</p><p><strong>Polyxena:</strong> Yeah, think about a pearl, think about where it comes from, it grows over time, doesn't it? It's very valuable, they're hard to come by, you can open a lot of oysters and not find one usually and just end up with a slimy little piece of meat. So you come across a treasure like a pearl, that's wonderful, but a pearl of great price, I believe there's a scripture in the Bible that talks about the pearl of great price, but anyway, the Pearl of Great Price in our canon of scripture contains the Book of Moses, the Book of Abraham, and some inspired works of Joseph Smith, so it's just like his history and his story of the First Vision and all of that. "The book of Moses contains an account of some of the visions and writings of Moses, revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith. It clarifies doctrines and teachings that were lost from the Bible and gives added information concerning the Creation of the earth" [(<em>Gospel Principles</em>, p. 48)]. I <em>love</em> the Doctrine-- I <em>love</em> the Pearl of Great Price version of creation because it's much more specific and I know when we were studying creation, we flipped back and forth between Genesis and the Book of Moses and the Book of Abraham, didn't we? We talked a lot about the specific things that were just enough-- just enough light clarification that it just cast an entirely different view on things, like remember when we talked about, as they created-- as the Gods created different parts of creation, whether it be, like, putting the earth together or, you know, building plants or things like that, they would wait to see if it was good. And you see that these were creation periods, that they would take what was there and they would do something to it and they would wait to see if it would work. And then once it was good, they would say, we'd wait to see if it was good, and they went on to the next thing. And so it's little tiny things like that when I go on and read the Pearl of Great Price that I find such treasures in there, just gems of knowledge. Um, the Book of Abraham was translated by Joseph Smith from papyrus scrolls taken from the Egyptian catacombs. So this is what I was saying before about the Bible, it was the collection of materials that some council decided, "This is what we want in here", and again, maybe not inspired by God. There may have been other books that were necessary that contained parts of the gospel that were lost, which is why we're so lucky to have the Book of Mormon to give us the fullness of those things. And so I know that the Church has done extensive study into the Dead Sea Scrolls, there's something that in like the last twenty or thirty years we've heard a lot about the Dead Sea Scrolls. They continue finding these papyri and different things that, um, stone tablets and-- I was watching something, I don't remember where it was, it wasn't Church-related, it was like on the Discovery Channel or History Channel, that they actually had these kind of, um, wooden things that they would write on, and they were hinged together and they would fold up like an accordion, and this was another way that they used to record things in tablets, a soft pulpy part that they would scratch in their writing, but it was, like, wooden and it was on this wooden frame that would close up. And so they're constantly finding as they dig up archaeological sites, they find different things, and so Joseph Smith happened to come upon this papyrus scroll and there's actual images of it in the Pearl of Great Price that you can look at. And again, Joseph Smith--History and history of the church and Articles of Faith. Umm, almost out of time! I want to talk a little bit about people's personal favorites, but, um, one thing that I wanna really use, a quote that's left [...] today, is--besides the fact that we should study our scriptures all the time, we should set aside time every day to read them, ponder them, pray about what we've read. I know that there's times when we need counsel in our lives, we flip open those scriptures, again, it happened to a different people in a different time in a different culture, but I know that there are scriptures that I have read that applied directly to me, and I want you to know that the words of our living prophets are scriptures for our time, the <em>Ensign</em>, the <em>Liahona</em>, those things, General Conference talks--that is our version of scripture, those are our prophets speaking to us today, they are being recorded and they are being archived, and that things are continuing to be revealed to our prophets today.</p></blockquote>And this time, one of the missionaries chimed in to make sure that everyone knew when General Conference would be (April 3 and 4), and that it could be viewed at the church via broadcast; they talked about that for a while; Demophon also noted that "it's been said among the prophets of years past that the living oracles, or the living word of God, is more important than the actual canon of scriptures that we have. The words of the prophets that live today are more important than the words of dead men." Alright, everybody got that? What you hear at General Conference is not just scripture but is in fact more important than the contents of the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. Anyway, the lesson eventually managed to wrap up--finally. It was interesting. I have to say that there were a few times when I had to restrain the urge to laugh, particularly when Polyxena was discussing the formation of the canon or the transmission and translation history of the Bible. (Hint: virtually every English translation currently in circulation is translated directly from the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament. All those steps of translation invoked as a spectre? Yeah, not an issue these days. They haven't been since, well, since before the time of Joseph Smith, largely. And the process of transmission is hardly akin to "Whisper Down the Lane"/"Telephone", but is a considerably more reliable process, for all its difficulties. Thanks to the science of textual criticism, we can be reasonably confident that our critical editions of the Hebrew and Greek text are more or less in tune with the original manuscripts--and while Latter-day Saints are free to believe that a whole bunch of things have been removed that were there before, that doesn't strike me as much more reasonable than most conspiracy theories.)<br /><br />So with that done, I learned that there was even more to do yet; one of my missionary friends, might've been Kallinos, referred to the LDS Sunday morning experience as "a three-hour marathon", and he's right! (Incidentally, Kallinos told me that I was free to keep the copy of <em>Gospel Principles</em> that I'd been using--sweet!) The third installment of my visit was constituted by accompanying Demophon and Kallinos to priesthood meeting, after some customary visits to the lavatory (in turns) while waiting for the chapel to empty out from whatever had been there before. So there I was, with Demophon and Kallinos, near the front of the chapel for priesthood meeting. (Interesting note: although, because LDS missionaries are instructed to refer to themselves, and have other people so refer to them, as "Elder So-and-So", without a first name - which is viewed as a matter of controversy by some outsiders - I noticed that both Demophon and Kallinos had their full names embossed in gold lettering on the back covers of their quadruple combinations.) Now, priesthood meeting is just for the dudes; there's something different at that time for the women of the church. And while that struck me as somewhat unfamiliar in one sense, in another sense, I have to say that I actually enjoyed it. For some reason, paring it down to just the guys gave the room a somewhat different feel; hopefully the women, wherever they happened to be, had a similarly freeing experience.<br /><br />Anyway, at the start of priesthood meeting, various priesthood holders gave reports on what they've been up to, on various committees, upcoming events, etc. Demophon and Kallinos reported very briefly on their activities, too. We also sang hymn #105, "Master, the Tempest is Raging", which I remembered as one of Elder Gerald Causse's favorite hymns--and with us all in closer quarters and without the women, it sounded much better. And then it was time for the lesson; the guy teaching it was a rather loudspoken man who intimated that he might be a sociology professor somewhere; I'll be calling him "Pterelaos". The lesson for this time around was on creation, drawing on the fifth chapter of <em>Gospel Principles</em>. Rather than quote anything verbatim, I'll summarize the main points I found interesting. First of all, I'd forgotten that traditional LDS interpretation holds that <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gen/1">Genesis 1</a> is about the "spiritual creation", while <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gen/2">Genesis 2</a> concerns the subsequent "physical creation". Everything was created "spiritually" before it was created "physically"; what this means, precisely, I'm not totally sure. But this interpretation was considered to be simply obvious on what was, in fact, quite a slim scriptural basis--allegedly stating that various things were created again (i.e., physically) in Genesis 2 that were already created (spiritually) in Genesis 1. (The argument hinged chiefly on <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gen/2/5#5">Genesis 2:5</a>, which says that God made "<span style="color:#009900;">every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew</span>"). Pterelaos also added that <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/moses/1/33-35#33">Moses 1:33-35</a> shows that our cosmos is only one of vastly many of God's created realms; and, discussing obtaining knowledge of God and quoting <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/moses/1/5#5">Moses 1:5</a>, he said:<br /><blockquote>But seriously, you know, he basically told him, 'So no man can behold all of my glory and yet remain in the flesh.' Now what that tells us is that when we are no longer in the flesh, a lot of these mysteries that we have - necessarily so - they'll be shown to us as we see things from an eternal perspective, as we get to the other side of the veil, we'll be able to see things like our Heavenly Father sees them, and then we'll know exactly what he's talking about.</blockquote>There was also, naturally, the customary misuse of <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gen/1/26-27#26">Genesis 1:26-27</a>, as though physical similarity (Pterelaos claimed that the Father "used himself as the blueprint in terms of our creation, our bodies") were really the point of the passage--which, as later passages make clear, is not the point of being made in the image of God, nor does other ancient Near Eastern literature indicate that any sort of physical similarity would be at all required. Pterelaos, in asserting that we and God have the same sort of bodily form, supposed that the alternative would involve God being "some mist out there", which of course is not what any sensible orthodox Christian believes, but is rather a caricature born out of the LDS tendency towards materialism. The plural pronoun in the passage was also claimed to indicate our Heavenly Parents, both Father and Mother--though even distinctively LDS scripture such as <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/moses/2/26#26">Moses 2:26</a> refers this to God the Father and God the Son.<br /><br />Pterelaos also talked about how in our pre-mortal life, we learned everything we could from Heavenly Father before taking the step into mortality. I'm not sure I consider that possible; I suspect that, even assuming the overall structure of the pre-mortality narrative, one would have to concede that there's vastly more that we could learn that we haven't already, even assuming that we've forgotten a great deal by passing through the veil of ignorance. Just my thoughts. Also, one person in the audience--and Pterelaos agreed--considered the best biblical evidence for our pre-existence to be <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/prov/8">Proverbs 8</a>... which, granting that line of interpretation, is exclusively about Jesus, not about us. Whenever Pterelaos mentioned the "Book of Revelations" [<em>sic</em>], I cringed, and in particular when he and everyone else there assumed as patently obvious that we--that is, our spirits--are the ones symbolized there by stars<em>. </em><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/job/38/7#7">Job 38:7</a> also got a weird twist--the reason for the morning stars (i.e., us, in LDS thought) shouting for joy is that we saw that we could become like the Father. (In actuality, the verse is talking about the angels rejoicing in God's creation out of their intense love for God and for his works.)<br /><br />There was also discussion of <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/john/1/1-3#1">John 1:1-3</a> and the Joseph Smith Translation's rewrite of it; Pterelaos asserted that the priesthood authority that they have is the same power by which the world was created. His exact words, to the best of my recollection: "So actually if we go back further the Word was with God, and it was through the Savior that-- now why would they even make reference to that? In other words, the Word of God and the way all these things were created-- by what power were all these things created? By the priesthood, exactly. And the priesthood, by definition, is the authority to act in the name of God." (Uh, question on that, actually. If authority to act in the name of God is the priesthood, but women aren't allowed to hold the priesthood in the LDS Church, do women have any authority to act in the name of God at all?) In addition, Pterelaos took a question from the 'audience' about what it means to call Jesus the "only-begotten Son of God", and here was the reply given:<br /><blockquote>Right, right. And that's why the Savior was created in the way that he was as well. Notice, he's the Only-Begot-- we read that in chapter 1 [of the Book of Moses], he's the Only-Begotten of the Father; what does that mean, to be the Only-Begotten of the Father? Unlike you and I, who are born of two mortal parents, he's the only person born in the flesh on this earth who has literally a mortal mother and an immortal father. Okay, that union presented an individual that could take upon himself the flesh and yet remain perfect in spirit. He inherited those qualities of body being able to live and die, but those qualities of perfection to be totally in tune with the will of the Father, he inherited from God himself, and that's what enabled such a sacrifice and atonement to take place. That's what makes him the Only-Begotten of the Father, because of that ability to exist in that manner.</blockquote>Also, turns out that one of Pterelaos' hobbies is ranting about intelligent design. Loudly. And for quite some time. There were a number of references to evolutionists believing in "life coming from mud" and other such things. Now, I make no secret around here of my general stance on the subject of evolution, though I have no intention to make any creationist readers feel particularly uncomfortable; having once been a very ardent creationist myself, I'm sympathetic. But I found it quite interesting that Pterelaos was using essentially the same arguments (and, oftentimes, caricatures) found in the writings of many creationists and/or other ID theorists. Here's an excerpt from his rant:<br /><blockquote>You know, it's kind of interesting, you know, when you look at the creation, it's interesting if you look at, you know, the people who make fun of intelligent design, okay? And, you know, basically if you look at Darwin in <em>The Origin of the Species</em>, if you read that book, Darwin's hypothesis is that all man evolved from the very beginning from a single-celled organism, okay? And it's of course nature that, you know, allows this to happen and brings us forward, but you know it's kind of interesting because if you look at that theory-- I mean, to me it is illogical to assume that life happened without a creator. Most scientists will tell you, you know what produces life? It's DNA, deoxyribonucleic acid; Crick and Watson discovered this, okay? And basically what we see is that we have strands perfectly aligned together in a double helix comprised of amino acids. Now, just to give you an idea that we can understand in terms of numbers here, for the most primitive form of life, a one-celled creature, you need about a minimum of 250 proteins for this building block of life, in order for life to exist, alright? With these strands in sequences of four, in terms of the DNA strands. Now, to put this in vaguest terms, in order for that to happen by chance in nature, imagine if you will - and this is what would have to happen, by chance - you have to go to Vegas, and each slot machine not having three but four mechanisms, come up boom-boom-boom-boom, A-B-C-D, all of them come up the same, okay, all A's, all B's, all-- okay? You would have to hit 250 slot machines and win at every single one of them in the proper sequence, boom-boom-boom. So you would have to hit 250 slot machines, all with-- and win at every single one of them in the exact same order in order for that to happen by chance. How does life come from mud? And what scientific experiment can you show me where life comes out of nothing? Where it reproduces without one of its own kind, without one of its species? Where in science-- and I remember asking a philosopher this, I remember engaging in a discussion because you gotta understand, as a teacher, you know, as a professor of sociology I interface with-- and I-- and basically a lot of your philosophers, they are atheists, okay, by nature, because generally what they learn is that their mind, if you can't prove it, if you cannot wrap your brain around it, so anything that they don't <em>understand</em> or cannot <em>logically</em> prove, they dismiss as bunk, okay? This is what teachers (?) do oftentimes. And I remember, you know, talking about evolution, and, "Well, it's, you know, God is a problem (?), why would you believe that... [trails off here]", and I says [<em>sic</em>], "Name me one scientific experiment where life comes from nothing, where a species can reproduce without a member of its own kind." "Well, in laboratories they've done--", and I started laughing, he says, "What, what's so funny?", I said, "You just said the magic word, 'in laboratories'. And who sets up a lab? A scientist. Therefore the scientist would be the creator in the very example that you just put forth! It didn't-- that lab didn't just come together on its own; it was organized by a scientist, by a chemist. Every example that you've given me points to the origin of a creator, somebody who put that lab together, somebody who had orchestrated the phenomena that brought this life together!" I said, "To try and convince me that life comes from-- how do we go from mud to life? Name me one example of that."</blockquote>So that, in essence, is my summary of Pterelaos' talk delivered during the priesthood meeting. (After the part I quoted, someone in the audience got him going about entropy, which took us on yet another brief wild ride, but one that didn't take quite as long because the audience member also wanted to pontificate on climate change and the Tower of Babel, and then Pterelaos got back into natural selection. I think it was Demophon who also chimed in with a note about how great composers were divinely inspired to write the music they did.) After some concluding remarks on gospel principles, the atonement, self-discipline, the remission of sins, and "return[ing] to our Heavenly Father", he concluded with the phrase, "And this testimony I leave with you in the name of Jesus Christ, amen", to which all naturally replied, "Amen", followed by a closing prayer. After everything wrapped up, I chatted a bit with the missionaries and a couple other folks (one guy actually thought to ask if I was LDS, and I infomed him that I'm an evangelical) before my ride was ready to leave; I returned to campus just in time to catch brunch with a couple friends and share with them my initial thoughts on the experiences.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-7957161316869770642010-03-11T19:08:00.007-05:002010-03-13T13:09:28.745-05:00Why Carlos Woke UpI've decided to write a reply, of sorts, to a post I ran across a little while ago on another blog. That blog, the <a href="http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/">Jehovah's Witness Blog</a>, is run by a former Jehovah's Witness who goes by "Carlos Scienza" (which, I think, he's intimated is more or less an anagram of his actual name). Carlos finally left the Jehovah's Witnesses several years ago, and has been an atheist since then. By and large, when it comes to many of the intellectual and social problems regarding Jehovah's Witnesses, I'd surmise that Carlos as I are quite in agreement. Needless to say, because he's an atheist and I'm a Christian, there are quite a few other issues on which he and I differ quite widely. So as I said, I ran into his blog a while ago and found him to be an atheist when I stumbled across the post, "<a href="http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/2010/02/what-made-you-wake-up.html">What made you wake up?</a>", about what finally drew him away from Jehovah's Witnesses. (Carlos included a particularly entertaining scene from the comic strip <em>Bizarro</em>; that alone would make Carlos' relatively brief post worth looking at.) I tried to leave a comment or two for Carlos there, but they appear to have gotten lost in cyberspace. Not an uncommon problem for me. It thus seems more efficient for me to just write a post in response.<br /><br />The first big issue is the reliability of the Bible's accounts of Jesus, and Carlos has this to say:<br /><br /><blockquote><p>I wanted to find out what the bible was, when it was written, and why. I discovered that there were other accounts written about Jesus, such as those found at the <a href="http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html">Nag Hammadi</a> site. I got to watch a documentary called <a href="http://www.thegodmovie.com/">The God That Wasn't There</a>. If you thought you knew the truth about Jesus Christ, you'd better check your facts.</p><p>A plethora of books and websites helped me see that the New Testament was certainly not prophecy, but written after the fact by people who never met Jesus. Paul was the first Christian writer whose works survived, but his Jesus was more like a Star Wars Jesus - A long time ago in a galaxy far far away...</p><p>Read Paul's writings again. You'll find no time period for Jesus, no lineage, no ride into Jerusalem, no being put to death story. What you will find, is that Jesus was a mythical man. Did Jesus ever live? Maybe, I don't know? But nobody wrote of such a miracle worker during his lifetime.</p><p>I learned that many God-men of many religions came down to earth and were born of a virgin. Apparently, that is the basic formula - A God-man is larger than life if he visits people. People know that he was born of a woman, so they have to say that his birth was miraculous and pure. Look up Horus and Mithra.</p></blockquote>Now, I'm not sure whether or not Carlos realizes it, but the vast majority of what he's said here is in direct contradiction to essentially all contemporary scholarship on all of these subjects. The degree of contradiction is, in fact, every bit as extreme as the Jehovah's Witnesses' insistence that the fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians occurred in 607 BC--see <a href="http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/2010/01/was-jerusalem-destroyed-in-607-bce.html">here</a>. A first comment, though: the title of the movie that Carlos references is actually <em>The God <strong>Who</strong> Wasn't There</em>, not <em>The God <strong>That</strong> Wasn't There</em>. A very minor nitpick, I know, but I want to make sure my readers (well, alright, the vast empty halls of cyberspace, then) know the correct title of the movie.<br /><br />Now, first, it is true that we have no surviving documents that mention Jesus and that were written during his earthly life. This is, as a matter of fact, wholly unremarkable. Jesus was a peasant leader in a backwater of the Roman Empire, a backwater in which literacy rates were not nearly as high as they are today; furthermore, this society was predominantly oral in its modes of communication. In fact, the prevailing attitude of the ancient Mediterranean seems to have been a preference for orality rather than literality. Furthermore, Jesus' ministry lasted, most likely, for around three years. Before this time, Jesus did not perform any acts that would be likely to have made a serious impression on any of the literate elite; and thus we have, essentially, a three-year window in which some expect there to have been literary activity regarding Jesus, a figure who operated solely in Judaea and Galilee--places from which we have no surviving documents that date to precisely those three years, so far as we can tell. It is, in short, not a historically reasonable expectation. Moreover, contemporary literary documentation is not the standard demanded by historians; it is not sound historical methodology. If we were to limit our historical knowledge to exclusively contemporary sources (along with, of course, archaeological findings), we would know exceptionally little. Moreover, we would have no reason to believe in the historical existence of figures such as:<br /><br /><ul><li>Gamaliel, a first-century rabbi</li><li>Hillel, grandson of Gamaliel and another important rabbi</li><li>Shammai, another leading rabbi of his period</li><li>Honi the Circle-Drawer, a charismatic Jewish sage</li><li>Hanina ben Dosa, another charismatic Jewish sage</li><li>Siddhartha Gautama, better known as the Buddha</li><li>Apollonius of Tyana, first-century Pythagorean sage</li><li>Alexander of Abonoteichos, a religious charlatan posthumously lambasted by one of my heroes of the ancient world, Lucian of Samosata</li><li>Speusippus, Plato's successor as head of the Academy in Athens</li><li>Alcetas of Epirus, a great-grandfather of Alexander the Great - although he was mentioned by Demosthenes, that great orator was only 14 when Alcetas died, and so the speech doesn't count as strictly contemporary evidence</li></ul>More importantly, if just a few works had failed to survive, we'd have to add others to this list, including Socrates (if we get rid of Aristophanes' <em>Clouds</em>). And, for that matter, without archaeological evidence like coinage, we'd have nothing certain and contemporary for even someone so crucial as Alexander the Great; all of our surviving literary documentation for him comes from long after his time. I could probably augment the list even further. For example, I'm not sure that we have any contemporary evidence for, e.g., the Roman consul Quintus Fabius Vibulanus (our knowledge of him derives from Livy's <em>Ab Urbe Condita Libri</em>, if I recall correctly)<br /><br />Carlos also talks a bit about the story of Jesus (or, rather, the purported lack thereof) in the letters of Paul, which are without doubt the earliest surviving Christian documents. Does Jesus lack any sort of lineage in Paul's thought? Well, Paul talks in his letter to the Christians in Rome about Jesus, "who is descended from David according to the flesh" (Gk. <em>autou genomenou ek spermatos Dauid kata sarka</em>--<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+1%3A3">Romans 1:3</a>). A similar reference appears in the Pastoral Epistles at <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=2+Timothy+2%3A8">2 Timothy 2:8</a>. David, as was well known from the Hebrew scriptures, was a historical human king of Israel, founder of the dynasty that would govern the Israelites for centuries. Even if one wants to be especially skeptical and suggest that there was no historical king David (which is, I think, contrary to the best archaeological and historical indicators; I'll also note that Carlos appears to accept a historical king David), Paul and his contemporaries accepted that David was a real human, a real king--and it would seem difficult to chart a genealogy between a human David as an ancestor and a descendant named Jesus who lived in a mythical realm. The opposite direction has precedent--one may consider the putative descent of the Merovingian Dynasty from Merovech's alleged father, a sea monster of some sort--but I know of no other case in which, apart from apotheosis of a human figure, a completely heavenly, mythical figure was thought to be descended from a flesh-and-blood human who had lived at a particular time in human history.<br /><br />What of Jesus having "no time period"? Well, the Pastoral Epistles mention that Jesus testified before Pontius Pilate (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Timothy+6%3A13">1 Timothy 6:13</a>), which specifies a ten-year window. Admittedly, not all are in agreement that the Pastoral Epistles are authentically Pauline, though I think that they are. So we can at least say that perhaps Paul made a reference to Pilate. We may also gather a reference to Jesus' earthly life in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Thessalonians+2%3A14-16">1 Thessalonians 2:14-16</a>, which most certainly places Jesus on earth. Apart from that, Paul doesn't give any specific chronological data of use. He wouldn't have had to, in his context. There would have been relatively little reason to mention it in his surviving letters, all of which were written to people well aware of when Jesus had lived and died. We cannot simply make the jump from 'Paul never mentions exactly when Jesus lived on earth' to 'Paul doesn't believe that Jesus ever lived on earth'.<br /><br />Perhaps an analogy would be at least marginally helpful. We may imagine a world in which our surviving sources for early Jehovah's Witness history were Joseph F. Rutherford's <em>Religion</em>, his <em>Comfort for the Jews</em>, his <em>Salvation</em>, and the three volumes of his <em>Vindication</em>. In this collection--much, much larger in size than the existing Pauline corpus--there is absolutely no mention of Charles T. Russell. The name "Russell" is utterly absent; only a mention of "Russellites" can be found in the second volume of <em>Vindication</em>. It is true that Russell is not the subject of any of these works, but by the same reasoning by which Paul's lack of detail means a mythical Jesus, so too perhaps Rutherford's lack of mention in these works would, to some people in that alternate world, mean a mythical Russell. (Of course, if we add a few more works by Rutherford, such as <em>Harp of God</em> or <em>Millions Now Living Will Never Die</em>, then we gain both Russell's name and some chronological indicators--made possible by the convenient dating scheme used in twentieth-century America.) Moreover, were everything before the tables of contents lost, not even Russell's own <em>Studies in the Scriptures</em> (excluding the seventh posthumous volume) would offer any information about Russell that would aid in dating him. With the exception of the letters from C. Piazzi Smyth and a missionary in China quoted in <em>Thy Kingdom Come</em>, and one brief reference in the sixth study of <em>The New Creation</em>, even Russell's name would be entirely absent.<br /><br />Now, Carlos also comes to mention the "many God-men of many religions" who, he says, "came down to earth and were born of a virgin". He cites two examples, Horus and Mithra, to whom I'll return momentarily. I'd first like to say that divine incarnation of any sort comparable with that found in Christianity is exceptionally rare in world religions; in the most precise sense, I'd say that it's in fact totally unique. It is true that many divine or heroic figures of the ancient world were thought to have had peculiar conceptions... but few of these actually fit the bill of being virginal conceptions. To take the case of the Egyptian god Horus, for example, he was most definitely conceived during an act of intercourse between the Egyptian god Osiris and his wife/sister Isis, as can be confirmed by consulting Plutarch's <em>De Iside et Osiride</em> (well, the Greek title would be <em>Peri Isidos kai Osiridos</em>). I've yet to come across a primary source that claims that Isis was in fact a virgin when she gave birth to Horus.<br /><br />As for Mithras (or Mithra), there's the tricky question: which Mithra? There was the Mitra spoken of in the Vedas, the Iranian deity Mithra, and finally the Mithras of the Roman mystery religion of Mithraism. They need to be carefully distinguished in certain regards, since their stories frequently differ. Generally the extravagant claims about Mithras rely to an extent on the outdated scholarship of Franz Cumont, who worked under the outdated assumption that Iranian Mithraism and Roman Mithraism were substantially connected in a way that more recent Mithraic scholars have wisely rejected. As for the virgin birth of Mithras, it should be noted that the Roman Mithras was born from a rock (see, e.g., the thirteenth section of Commodianus' <em>Instructions</em> for the statement that "the unconquered one was born from a rock"). The Iranian Mithra, on the other hand, was in some accounts a direct creation of Ahura Mazda, being numbered among the <em>yazatas</em>, and so not born at all. Neither of these options gives Mithras a virgin birth.<br /><br />Similar analysis reveals that many of the other claims made to this effect (viz., that the story of Jesus derived from those of pagan deities) are similarly incorrect; they largely derive, originally, from 19th-century freethinkers who failed to substantiate much if any of their data from primary sources. Those few claims that do initially appear to have some connection with the primary sources are generally either inconsequential (i.e., no more significant than noting, for example, that both the English king Henry VIII and the Chinese emperor Jianwen (Zhu Yunwen) had special headgear) or else are rooted in a misinterpretation that has since been corrected by the advance of scholarship.<br /><br />In general, when it comes to these topics, the one book I'd recommend reading is called <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Shattering-Christ-James-Patrick-Holding/dp/1606472712/">Shattering the Christ Myth</a></em>. And I'm not <em>just</em> recommending it because I happen to have been one of the contributors (Chapter 22, the longest in the volume, is mine). There are certainly other very relevant books, such as <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Legend-Historical-Reliability-Tradition/dp/0801031141/">The Jesus Legend</a></em> (which I haven't read yet), but <em>Shattering the Christ Myth</em> deals accessibly in depth with essentially every issue that Carlos raised. The 'silence' of Paul? Check. The lack of reference to Jesus in surviving strictly contemporary records? Check. Horus? Check. Mithra? Check. Other alleged similarities to pagan deities? Check. The movie <em>The God Who Wasn't There</em>? Check, and for a bonus we'll throw in a second movie, <em>Zeitgeist</em>. In short, perhaps the most thorough published response to date to those who espouse some of the views that Carlos has adopted since breaking ranks with Jehovah's Witnesses.<br /><br />Finally, I'll also note that Carlos makes reference to the finds recovered at Nag Hammadi. This was an immensely important archaeological discovery, uncovering a cache of documents, many of which otherwise had been lost to the ages. They tell us a great deal about a fringe group (or family of groups) very active in the second and third centuries AD. They do not, however, tell us terribly much about the historical Jesus, although some of them (e.g., the <em>Gospel of Thomas</em>) can at times be useful for checking sayings of Jesus recorded in both the canonical gospels and in the Nag Hammadi texts. What these documents contain, however, is very, very foreign to the soil of first-century Palestine, the setting of Jesus' life. Many of these documents contain highly non-Jewish ideas that would have been extraordinarily strange to find in the mouth of Jesus. To try another analogy, if archaeologists in the future were to unearth some Jehovah's Witness's "theocratic library", those future scholars would undoubtedly learn a great deal about the Jehovah's Witnesses, a fringe group very active in the nineteenth, twentieth, and (so far) twenty-first centuries AD. They would not tell us much about contemporary biblical scholarship or mainstream American religious life. It would seem peculiar if those future scholars were to seriously re-evaluate their views of either of those fields on the basis of that recovered theocratic library; likewise, although I've read a number of the documents from the Nag Hammadi library, nothing in it has given me reason to re-evaluate my views of the historical Jesus, precisely because they shed no new light on him, but rather use him as a spokesman for ideas that he is historically very unlikely to have ever held.<br /><br />Carlos also wrote in his post:<br /><blockquote><p>I already saw that science could easily debunk the Old Testament stories of the flood and Genesis in general. I learned from documentaries and websites that archaeology and science proved how man is much older than the Bible makes room for, there is clear evidence for evolution, a global flood could not have happened, the Jews didn't have an exodus from Egypt, David was the king of a small empire that never included the entire 12 tribes, and that the Jews were still clearly polytheists in the days of David and Solomon, and they never ever actually lived under the Mosaic Law (which could not have been handed from God to Moses).</p><p>I learned that the Bible came out of a group of captive people in Babylon, possibly from more ancient writings but edited. I learned that it's stories were much like the stories of the Sumerians.</p><p>Both the Old and New Testaments were written chock full of legends that were full of fables (short stories, based on half-truths), but certainly not literal accounts. It seems that Judaism started out as allegory that nobody really believed, just as nobody really believed there were actual gods residing on Mount Olympus. Someone forgot it was a fable along the way. Same with the Jesus stories.</p></blockquote>Well, where to begin my comments! I first want to focus on the first part, and then I'll no doubt skip around a bit here and there. I really have little objection to the first part of what Carlos said. As I've said on my blog before, I'm an evolutionist. I don't believe that the earliest sections of Genesis, up to and including the Flood narrative, were meant to be taken as history in anywhere near the sense that we understand it; this means that I, of course, don't see an inevitable collision between biblical authority and the general scientific consensus about the biological origins of humanity--both of which I accept.<br /><br />(A caveat, however: documentaries are a notoriously poor source of information and have a strong tendency to sensationalize and interject bias through unbalanced selection; they inevitably involve sound bites. Generally speaking, I avoid documentaries unless I'm in the mood to yell at the television set. I prefer to get my information, not from documentaries nor from websites, but chiefly from published work by scholars in the relevant field.)<br /><br />As for the exodus of the Jews from Egypt and various other things Carlos mentioned, I do accept the substantial historicity of those events, which are probably too complicated to discuss in any reasonable detail here. I will, however, recommend K. A. Kitchen's book <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Reliability-Old-Testament-K-Kitchen/dp/0802803962/">On the Reliability of the Old Testament</a></em>, which I've found to be an exceptionally persuasive treatment of the Old Testament. There are other books devoted to the exodus, such as James Hoffmeier's <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X/">Israel in Egypt</a></em>, but I haven't read it yet and so don't know to what degree I'd recommend it or not. I'm somewhat intrigued about what Carlos does think about the scope of the Davidic kingdom (which, while a 'micro-kingdom' of the sort common at the time, does appear to me to have included all the Israelite tribes). As for the Jews being polytheistic in their early history, we need to consider whether this statement is meant to cover normative Jewish religion or popular Jewish religion, which can be two quite different things. The Kuntillet Arjud ostraca, for example, are hardly surprising as examples of popular Jewish religion; the biblical authors are quite clear that much of the history of Israel and Judah was full of idolatrous deviation from normative Jewish religion, which was monolatrous at the least, if not necessarily explicitly monotheistic (primarily because, at least in the beginning, monolatry would have been the most pressing matter). I'm very curious, too, about what Carlos is saying with respect to the Mosaic Law.<br /><br />Carlos is right when he says that many of the things in the Bible have parallels in Mesopotamian literature. (That doesn't necessarily indicate direct borrowing of those elements during the Babylonian Captivity, however. Many of the relevant motifs and narrative structures were commonplace in the ancient Near East.) I'm a lover of ancient Near Eastern literature, which means that I've read plenty of creation myths, flood narratives, and a whole slew of other documents from ancient Near Eastern civilizations.<br /><br />When it comes to the general tenor of the Old Testament and New Testament, I'll have to disagree with Carlos. First, his definition of "fable" is non-standard insofar as it references "half-truths". Also, in the accepted sense of "fable", the biblical narratives do not consist of them. I think that genre and context are highly important for understanding the Bible, and I do agree that the Old Testament contains ahistorical narrative genres, particular near the beginning of Genesis; I do not, however, think that the New Testament should be read this way, because the genre is different. The story of Jesus is told in four Greco-Roman <em>bioi</em> ("lives", or ancient biographies--see Richard Burridge's <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/What-Are-Gospels-Comparison-Graeco-roman/dp/0802809715/">What Are the Gospels?</a></em>), not a collection of fables. One can reject the historicity of those biographies if one wishes, but they do not seem reducible to the level of allegory. I'm also not certain that it's true that no one ever believed that the Greek gods actually dwelled spatially on Mt. Olympus. (I considered trying to climb Mt. Olympus while in Greece but didn't have the opportunity; if I'm ever back in the area, I wouldn't mind tackling at least the Skolio summit.) I'm not entirely certain what Carlos means when he says that "Judaism started out as allegory that nobody really believed", though it appears to flatly contradict what Carlos said <a href="http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/2010/01/atheists-book-of-bible-stories-part-one.html">elsewhere</a> to the effect that "in early times, the Bible was taken at it's [<em>sic</em>] word". Whatever Carlos precisely means when he speaks of early Judaism as wholly allegorical, if it means anything beyond the mythical character of, e.g., Genesis 1-11, then I'd be quite interested to hear more and also to hear some of the reasoning behind the claim.<br /><br />While I'm offering a few assorted comments, I'll add in that, if Christian faith were indeed <a href="http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/2010/01/what-is-faith.html">as Carlos describes it</a>, I don't think I could have it. One popular definition of "faith" is, sadly, "firm belief in something for which there is no proof". (Technically, that isn't necessarily a problem, if we distinguish properly between "proof" and "evidence". Strictly speaking, I have no proof that Carlos even exists; I do, however, have strong evidence. Strictly speaking, I'm not even sure I have proof, <em>per se</em>, that the earth exists, but I certainly have far more than sufficient evidence to warrant that belief.) Generally speaking, I'm not a large fan of having "firm belief in something for which there is no [evidence]". I believe that God exists; I would contend that I do so at least in part because I perceive that such is a reasonable belief to hold and is warranted by evidence. I wouldn't say that I have faith that God exists, because I strive to use "faith" more in the sense of <em>pistis</em>, the Greek word used in the New Testament and commonly rendered as "faith". It gives more the sense, usually, of conveying the sense of loyalty and trust, which is perfectly compatible with having good reason to extend that loyalty and trust. It is in this sense that I have faith in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (This way of speaking survives in speaking of a "faithful" spouse; this clearly has nothing to do with "firm belief in something for which there is no [evidence]".)<br /><br />To conclude this post, though, I want to say that although I disagree with Carlos on issues such as God and the Bible, his site is definitely worth reading, particularly for interesting insights on what it was like being raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and what it's like transitioning away from loyalty to that group. That's why I'm happy to include it in the blog sidebar here.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-80842595094509955882010-02-26T20:37:00.011-05:002010-04-01T13:20:43.289-04:00LDS Lesson #11So today I met with the missionaries outside the local pizza place where we'd had our previous meeting. Upon reflection, I had decided that the place was too noisy inside for me to hear clearly enough what was going on, so I decided that future meetings would be in secluded spots on campus. Rather than try to give directions by phone - reception is notoriously bad around here, and I got disconnected several times during even a brief phone conversation with Demophon - we decided to just meet there and walk over. I had extra free time because all classes were cancelled on the grounds of ridiculously inclement weather. And so I found myself at the shop early to grab a bit of food as a 'light' lunch (actually, it was vastly more filling than I'd imagined), and eventually I glimpsed Demophon approaching with his new partner. Sthenelos, you see, had been transferred just a day or so after I met him; and so I now met a Californian elder (born in Minnesota, though) whom I'll call "Kallinos". We took the trek back to campus, despite the utterly horrid wintery weather, and I showed them to the chapel. (They initially thought that the local art gallery, which used to be a church, was the building in question.) After leading them to the relatively comfortable lounge in the chapel basement and exchanging some chit-chat, one of the missionaries opened with a brief word of prayer.<br /><br />So first I got to know Kallinos a bit better; he has a rather low and quiet voice, so it wasn't always easy to make out what he was saying. One thing I found is that he really likes to read... a lot. (As he remarked at one point, "I devour books.") Which, of course, really connected to me--I'm the exact same way. He's done mostly fiction, but since going on his mission he's realized how valuable some religious non-fiction could be, so he's excited to have time after his mission to really dive into that. On his mission, he's been mostly restricted to reading the Standard Works, although he did recently read Stephen R. Covey's <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Roots-Human-Relations-Stephen/dp/0875797059/">Spiritual Roots of Human Relations</a></em>. He said, though, that at times he does tire of reading just the scriptures; he compared it to being made to eat chocolate cake all day, every day--good stuff, but maybe some less rich stuff for contrast would be nice. (Of course, being allergic to chocolate and not at all a fan of its flavor or its aroma, which itself can make me feel ill, I suppose some of that was lost on me.) He's an English major, and he hopes to eventually earn a doctorate in the field and teach at the university level.<br /><br />Kallinos and Demophon agreed, however, that if they read too much theology--even LDS theology--while on their mission, they might get distracted from the main purpose of their calling, which is to "teach repentance". Demophon then checked if missionaries had ever talked to me about things like the law of tithing, the Word of Wisdom, and a couple other topics; I said yes, since I've been as far through the missionary discussions as a non-convert can get. Kallinos asked if I "understand it all pretty well"; my answer was, "I think so". I am quite sure that I grasp the meaning of what the missionaries provided, but I'm usually relatively hesitant to say that I understand something, because I don't want to be presumptuous or to exclude the possibility (however distant it may be) that I'm completely off-base. Blame <a href="http://typelogic.com/intp.html">my personality type</a>:<br /><br /><blockquote>A major concern for INTPs is the haunting sense of impending failure. They spend considerable time second-guessing themselves. The open-endedness (from Perceiving) conjoined with the need for competence (NT) is expressed in a sense that one's conclusion may well be met by an equally plausible alternative solution, and that, after all, one may very well overlooked some critical bit of <em>data</em>.</blockquote>Anyway, they asked if I've "applied what they [Creon and Orestes] taught [me]", and I said yes, because I do strive to live by many of the same general principles as Latter-day Saints do (even if I don't consider tithing a law and don't necessarily consider the Word of Wisdom to always be the required option, or anything like that). They then asked if I've been reading and praying, and if I've come to church; I said that I have been continuing to work through the Book of Mormon and pray for wisdom and enlightenment from God, but that I haven't been to an LDS church yet, but would like to. We're going to see about arranging for me to visit the nearest one on 14 March 2010.<br /><br />They then asked me "how [my] prayers have been going", which is always a perplexing question for me. I view prayer as communication with God, communication with a real being who listens; asking how prayer has been going is like asking how a phone conversation has been going. It's not necessarily a nonsensical question, but a peculiar one nonetheless. At any rate, I said that regarding the whole Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith thing, I "haven't heard an answer back yet", but I intend to continue persevering in prayer and entrusting myself to God. They then asked me "what [I] usually pray for when [I] pray", and I answered, "I pray that God would grant me wisdom, that he would enlighten my mind, that he would move in me to accomplish his will, whatsoe'er it may be." One of the missionaries asked me whether I "get into specifics at all", and I replied that "I also pray that he would, you know, reveal to me whether or not the Book of Mormon is true, whether or not The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church, whether or not Joseph Smith was a prophet called by God".<br /><br />Demophon then decided to ask me more about "the feelings that [I] receive from reading the Book of Mormon", to describe them. Another unexpected question, and one that made me pause to think. In light of my pause, one of the missionaries said he's pretty sure it couldn't have just been emptiness, there had to be some feeling there. Anyway, I said that when I read the Book of Mormon, I generally have a positive feeling, but nothing "out of the ordinary"; I also said that "I do really enjoy reading the Book of Mormon, I learn a lot from it". In retrospect I'm not entirely sure how true that is; I'd probably enjoy the Book of Mormon a whole lot more if it weren't written in an affected archaic style to imitate the King James Version, which I also don't especially enjoy reading, to be perfectly honest. Demophon then asked "what it is [I'm] expecting", and I said that all I would expect from God as an answer to my prayer, assuming that he does wish to communicate to me that the Book of Mormon is true, would be "really anything that would let me know that it is God revealing it to me. It doesn't have to be, you know, exceptionally flashy or anything like that, just simply the 'still, small voice' of God saying, 'This is me, here I am.'" The missionaries seemed to accept that answer.<br /><br />The missionaries then wanted to go over a few passages of Scripture with me, starting with <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gal/5/22-25#22">Galatians 5:22-25</a>. I read them aloud for us, and then Demophon wanted to turn to <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/46/7-26#7"><em>Doctrine and Covenants</em> 46:7-26</a>. We spent quite a bit of time on this one, going a few verses and then talking about it for a bit. (I was actually somewhat surprised at how fluently I was able to read my parts, since I'm not terribly used to the rhythm and style of the wording.) The section from the D&C was basically about the distribution of spiritual gifts, and I admit that spiritual gifts has been a topic of at least some interest for me lately.<br /><br /><span style="font-size:85%;">(Perhaps I should interject an anecdote. As I may have mentioned, my roommate Childeric is heavily into the charismatic movement. Very... <em>very</em> heavily into the charismatic movement, in what I consider to be a perhaps unhealthy degree. I have no grievance against charismatic believers, save when there's an obviously problematic excess or imbalance. And my roommate really is a great guy, and very passionate for the Lord. Still, I've heard him speak in tongues roughly 10,000% more than I've heard him discuss the gospel, which has been more on the order of... well, I'm not actually sure if he'd have an answer besides "spiritual gifts" if I asked him what the gospel is. Whenever I say that the center of my faith is Christ crucified and risen from the dead, he actually seems to get a bit uncomfortable and try to shift the topic back to the gifts of healing, prophecy, and personal revelation in the contemporary Christian life. He generally intersperses this with remarks about how much more spiritually enlightened he is than anyone else around here. Anyway, he runs a Sunday morning worship service on campus this semester, and this past Sunday I attended. There were only a few people there. During the service, the speaker's wife said that someone present needed to be healed from back pain; I suffer from chronic back pain, probably largely due to scoliosis and all-around terrible joints, so I raised my hand. (It caught me especially off-guard because on the way to the service, I'd thought to myself that the one thing that would convince me beyond doubt of my roommate's radical position was if he and his friends were to heal my back...) Before I knew it, there was plenty of laying on of hands and praying in tongues - often, I'll add, in ways that are in apparent defiance of Paul's admonitions on the subject - for my healing. Because I'd been caught off-guard, I succeeded in persuading myself that I was healed, which actually did remove the pain for perhaps a day or so, by and large; now that the euphoria has worn off, of course, my back is no better than it was a month ago, although I certainly did strive to follow through humbly and boldly on every bit of advice I was given. The power of suggestion is, I suppose, a powerful thing indeed. A fascinating lesson nonetheless.)</span><br /><br />So anyway, we discussed that passage for a while, not really saying much; neither of the missionaries seemed to be totally sure what the phrase "differences of administration" (<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/46/15#15">D&C 46:15</a>) was supposed to mean. The student manual that Latter-day Saints use quoted Sidney B. Sperry's <em>Doctrine and Covenants Compendium</em> (p. 196) as saying on the topic:<br /><br /><blockquote>What is meant by differences of administration? By referring to <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_cor/12/5#5">1 Corinthians 12:5</a>, where the Apostle Paul is speaking about the same thing, we may get a suitable answer. Apparently by 'differences of administration' is meant the distinctive varieties of service and ministration by which things are accomplished in the Church. The Lord seems to be saying (vs. 15) that while there are diversities of services and ministers or agents, such as Apostles, High Priests, Seventies, and the like in the Church, they all depend on the same Lord and Savior, who is the head of the whole Church. One who has the gift by the Holy Ghost to know differences of administration is one who discerns correctly the services and agencies by which the Lord works. (quoted in <em>Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual</em>, p. 100)</blockquote>Anyway, after Kallinos told a story about his father and how this gift has played a role in his life, Demophon remarked that this is something important that they wanted to discuss with me because "when [I] do become a member of the Church, [I] will be asked to do things, but when we serve [...] our Heavenly Father, we're blessed and we grow". So from there we continued to work through that portion of the <em>Doctrine and Covenants</em>. <em></em>I believe that at one point the missionaries asked me what knowledge has done in my life, and I explained that it helps me approach the Scriptures more richly and take from them a greater wealth of practical guidance for living, as well as beholding the truth itself more clearly and thus coming to understand God better. Something like that, anyway. They also asked if I've seen it impact those around me; after I said yes, Kallinos noted that the reason God gives us gifts is for the benefit of those around us. Demophon then referred to <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_kgs/3/11-14#11">1 Kings 3:11-14</a>, talking about the value of wisdom for Solomon.<br /><br />Kallinos eventually came to ask me, "How much have you looked into why we do things?" A bit perplexed by the question, I asked him to clarify the relevant universe of discourse. (In layman's terms, I asked him whether he was using "we" as people in general, "we" as believers in God, "we" as LDS missionaries, or whatever.) Upon finding agreement to "humans in general", I answered that a lot of things can motivate us, and that while it's often selfishness, but also by the desire to serve God and others. As I said, "we're motivated by how we mentally rank things", how we prioritize our worlds. The highest form of motivation, of course, is do act sheerly from love of God, which expands also to love of others for the sake of the God who is Love. Kallinos then expounded on the Book of Mormon definition of "charity" as the "pure love of Christ", noting that because we have this love of Christ through love for Christ, we do everything for the sake of the other, and only incidentally for ourselves.<br /><br /><blockquote>When you show God that you want to do everything you do for the benefit of his children, then he's going to help you do it. If you do it for a selfish cause, like-- there are even people within our Church that try to live the gospel of Jesus Christ for themselves, for the benefit of, you know, receiving their own salvation, receiving their own eternal reward or whatever it is. But the highest form of motivation comes not for serving yourself but for serving others.</blockquote>He then turned to <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/moro/7/5-11#5">Moroni 7:5-11</a> and read it, and then discussed it briefly. Commenting on the statement that praying apart from "real intent" is counted by God as an evil, Kallinos said:<br /><br /><blockquote>It's like, it says that it is accounted evil unto a man if he shall pray and not with real intent of heart. If you are praying, if you're trying to communicate your desires to God, and it's not with real intent of heart if your motivation isn't sincere, it's not <em>real</em>, then it's counted nothing towards you. You need to make sure that your motivations are pure, that they're-- that they're what God wants. [...] It's like, um, Cain and Abel, you know? They both offered sacrifices. Cain offered the fruit of the ground; Abel offered the firstlings of his flock. It was in the motivation... Cain offered it because it was just what he was required to give, you know, just the fruit of the ground. Abel did it because he wanted to, and so he gave his best, you know? Everything good comes from God, and everything evil comes from the devil. If what we do is good, then it's gonna be inspired of God; if what we do is bad, it's the devil. A little bit where I'm trying to go with this is that we need to make sure that our motivations are pure if we're gonna get what we're asking for from God. If you want an answer to your prayers, you need to make sure that your motivations are pure. It can't be for intellectual gain, it can't be for some selfish desire or anything like that, it's got to be because you want to follow Christ and you want to know that this comes from Christ.</blockquote>(My cellphone rang while he was talking, but I ignored it. It was odd because I'm not used to people desiring to contact me.) He then went on to talk about how in his own life before he went on his mission, the gospel was basically just "a lot of mental Tinkertoys" for him, not any real devotion. He did things because he was told to, but not because of any deep desire; he would, on the other hand, "look into the deep doctrines of the faith because they were cool and fun and interesting", but "it really wasn't heartfelt, it really wasn't meaningful to me, it had no practical application to my life". Only when his heart was "softened" and he "got down on [his] knees and prayed", "really pleading with the Lord if it is true", did God give him the affirmative answer he sought. Then, of course, came the relatively standard testimony-bearing to the effect that he knew that the experience he had (he described it as "a baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost") could only come from God, and couldn't possibly have arisen from within himself. (I can't speak for others, but I generally don't have a positive reaction to testimony-bearing of this sort, since it largely serves as a discussion stopper. Basically, I don't regard it as one of the more effective ways for a Latter-day Saint to reach a person like me, I'm <a href="http://icnebavo.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/how-i-wish-mormons-interacted-with-my-evangelical-self/">in good company</a>. I deem it particularly ineffective insofar as it reminds me that many Latter-day Saints hold a view of religious epistemology that I generally consider wrongheaded.) Then came a brief conversation that might not have been the most judicious on their part:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Kallinos:</strong> Um, I don't know, you say you've been praying. But have you <em>really</em> prayed? Like, have you really gotten on your knees, and poured out your whole soul into your prayer, and pled with the Lord that he would answer your prayer?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I would say yes. And I shall do so again.</p><p><strong>Kallinos:</strong> Okay.</p></blockquote>At this point, Kallinos wanted to turn to <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/moro/7/45-48#45">Moroni 7:45-48</a>, which naturally we did. It struck me as a pretty clear borrowing from Paul. Demophon said that this passage amply illustrates "what truly motivates us". After some of Demophon's pontificating on the value of having an other-centered live, Kallinos added that he didn't come on his mission for himself, but rather to benefit others like me.<br /><br />Demophon at last asked whether or not I had any questions. Now, I had thought a little bit about some of the questions I'd previously posed to Creon and Orestes, but because Demophon and Kallinos had taken far more time for their own things than I had anticipated, I really didn't want to launch into a deep discussion of any sort in the time remaining, and I definitely didn't want things to run over the scheduled time limit, since I had other things to do today. For that reason, after contemplating it for a little bit, I said that I'd think more about my questions and try asking them next time. Demophon asked whether the questions were scriptural, theological, or historical, and I answered that I had some of all three; he said that they'd definitely be willing to do any homework they needed to in order to answer the questions. I think that Kallinos is the one who chimed in with the comment, "I do know that all questions can be answered with the power of the Holy Ghost." Well, then, I may just have to hold them to that. Demophon started saying something about "if [I] come to accept that the Book of Mormon is true", but caught himself very quickly and changed the "if" to "when". They're very confident.<br /><br />Anyway, we wrapped things up in prayer, and we parted in the chapel narthex; they went out one set of doors, and I went out the other direction. By way of reflection, I will say that I don't enjoy meeting with these missionaries nearly as much as I did with the ones I knew in Greece. Creon and Orestes were more... perhaps laid-back. I suppose I just don't feel the same actual sense of warmth from Demophon and Kallinos. But, time will tell, I suppose.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-24425087668593681032010-02-22T22:56:00.004-05:002010-03-12T20:28:33.965-05:00A Special TalkThis will require a fair bit of background information. Over a year ago, I persuaded some friends of mine to join me in founding a campus organization at my college. We called it 'Mars Hill' after the site in Athens where Paul interacted with the philosophers of his day, and I can do no better to explain what we do than to quote the purpose statement from our constitution in full:<br /><blockquote>Mars Hill shall sponsor events, including but not limited to formal debates, open discussions, panel discussions, lectures, media screenings, and joint discussions/events with other groups, with the goal(s) of benefiting the campus community and furthering the educational mission of [this college] by: (i) edifying and enriching the Christian community, (ii) advancing Christian outreach, (iii) fostering civil and intellectually honest interfaith dialogue, and (iv) promoting critical engagement and exploration concerning both the fundamental questions of religion and culturally relevant topics.</blockquote>We've had a number of excellent events in the past, dealing with subjects as diverse as religion and politics, abortion, violence in the media, Judaism, Eucharistic theology, euthanasia, eschatology, Protestantism and Catholicism, and many others; in the works are events dealing with religion and drug use, religion and homosexuality, and the theology of hymns about the crucifixion and the resurrection. I think it's safe to say that we're very active and keep ourselves quite busy. Tonight, however, we had something somewhat peculiar. I invited Uriah to deliver a talk on campus and then answer questions; here's the flyer that I'd made for the event (edited to protect the guilty; as usual, I prefer to assign pseudonyms wherever possible):<br /><br /><img style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0px auto 10px; WIDTH: 247px; DISPLAY: block; HEIGHT: 320px; CURSOR: hand" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5444056649844093730" border="0" alt="" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rzpDhau-zFQ/S40srd8PcyI/AAAAAAAAAAo/7oN9XLQ4NBg/s320/mars_hill_flier_jwtalk_001-02.jpg" /> Tonight at around 7:25 PM, as I was sitting in the chapel sanctuary, Uriah arrived with a friend, whom I'll call 'Eitan'. Eitan actually has the same surname as I do, and his late brother had virtually the same name as I. I originally met Eitan at the <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/08/evangelical-report-from-jw-district.html">2009 district convention</a>, though I didn't mention him in my account of it because we didn't have any highly significant conversations then. After I prepared the room, I showed them to Chapel 101, one of the few true lecture halls on campus. They set out at the side of the stage a number of publications they'd brought for those who might want them. I then spent the next half hour or so chatting with them on and off, mostly with Eitan; Uriah mentioned that a number of Jehovah's Witnesses must have noticed the fliers, because he'd received two phone calls about it already.<br /><br />Eventually, the room actually started filling up, perhaps because several professors had agreed to give extra credit to students for attending and writing a brief reflection on it. By our estimates, there were perhaps 35-40 people there, including a total of four Jehovah's Witnesses. The third, whom I'll call 'Liron', was from the local Kingdom Hall; Uriah had the foresight to invite him in case any students were so interested in what they heard that they'd have interest in getting more plugged in with the local JW community. The fourth Jehovah's Witness was a fellow who actually works at the college in the athletic department. Watching the clock on the back wall and the somewhat steady flow of more and more people into the lecture hall (including my mother and my former associate pastor, as well as one professor and several friends of mine), I stood at the lectern to thank everyone for having come, to introduce the event (and, naturally, give a plug or two for Mars Hill), and to introduce Uriah. After some opening applause by the audience, Uriah then delivered what I considered to be a quite well-prepared talk about what Jehovah's Witnesses believe and why:<br /><blockquote><p>Thank you very much. I had to come out on a night like this to find out from [JB] that I'm cool; I didn't know that before. What I'd like to do is explain to you what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. Most people do not agree with us. I'm going to explain to you what we believe and give you enough scriptures hopefully that you can understand why we believe it. First thing I'd like to do is quote a couple misconceptions. We are not affiliated with the Mormons. We are not affiliated with the Seventh-Day Adventists. In our door-to-door work, people often confuse us with those groups. We have nothing whatsoever to do with them. We are Jehovah's Witnesses [...] a religion, by itself, with its own organization. We also are a group that has a lot of conflicting falsehoods rumored about it. Two of the ones that I usually get a kick out of is, people believe that we are a secret closed society because we meet in buildings without windows; that way you can't see what we're doing in there. The other rumor is that we go door-to-door trying to invite everybody to those meetings. Both can't be true; either we're secret, or we're not. We are not secret. The reason for no windows in the building usually disappoints people when they find out the reason: the insurance is cheaper, heating and air conditioning is cheaper. It's as simple as that. Not a spiritual reason at all.</p><p>So, who are Jehovah's Witnesses? If you look around your area, you won't be able to pick them out unless they're knocking on your door or going to a kingdom hall, because they're just normal people, imperfect people, trying their very best to sincerely be obedient to their belief in God and Jesus Christ. In accord with <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=2+Timothy+3%3A16">2 Timothy 3:16</a>, they believe that all Scripture is inspired by God, and they believe <em>all</em> Scripture. They don't feel that parts of it have become antiquated or don't apply anymore; they view the entire Bible. Their beliefs are found in their understanding of the Bible. Every one of the beliefs that Jehovah's Witnesses has [<em>sic</em>], they can go to a scripture and tell you why they believe in it. Whether you agree with that or not is absolutely up to you; each person has their own choice to make. But that is what they use as a basis, the Bible itself.</p><p>So, why the name "Jehovah's Witnesses"? Again, let me tell you what we're not. We are not "Millennial Dawnists", we are not "No-Hellers", and we are not "Russellites". That was a falsehood that was spread in the beginning of the twentieth century by uninformed opposers. They felt that, just like followers of Menno Simon are named Mennonites, followers of Martin Luther are named Lutherans, because Charles Russell was the first president of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, they felt that we must be Russell<em>ites</em>--and that has never been true. The organization has always had a group of men, spirit-appointed men, who operated it and run it; it was <em>never</em> led by a man. It has always been led by the organization's understanding of the Bible. We do not have any man-made historical traditions that we go by. Like I said earlier, everything that we believe - whether you agree with us or not - we base on our understanding of the Bible. Prior to 1931, Jehovah's Witnesses were known as International Bible Students. Even those in the organization referred to themselves as that. It was in 1931 that we adopted the name "Jehovah's Witnesses". As God himself used the term, it's in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Isaiah+43%3A10">Isaiah chapter 43 and verse 10</a>... It says, "'Y<span style="font-size:85%;">OU</span> are my witnesses', is the utterance of Jehovah, 'even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span> may know and have faith in me.'" Now the Tetragrammaton signifying God's name, Jehovah, appeared over seven thousand times in the Hebrew Scriptures. Some scholars prefer the pronunciation "Yahweh". Either one is correct, we have no absolute sure way of saying it is "Jehovah" or "Yahweh", but both are acceptable in the English language. Now, because it appeared over seven thousand times, we believe - since the Scriptures are inspired by God - that it is important to God for us to know his name. One of the examples can be found in the book of Psalms, chapter 83... <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+83%3A18">Psalms 83, and verse 18</a>--this, this is true also with the older King James Version, it reads the same way--it says that "people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over the earth". And Jesus himself expressed many times the importance of using the divine name. So following Jesus' example, Jehovah's Witnesses use it too. Now, as for the "Witness" part, as an organization we acknowledge the responsibility of <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Isaiah+43%3A10">Isaiah 43:10</a>--also as individuals. Each one of us that gets baptized as one of Jehovah's peoples-- people-- we acknowledge that responsibility that we take on to witness. The thought behind Isaiah 43:10 and the assignment that Jesus Christ gave all Christians at Matthew 28:19-20 tells us that we must go out and witness. It is our belief that Jehovah God and Jesus Christ require us to witness.</p><p>So how many of us are there? We talk to people sometimes and they think that [...] a little cult here or there [...] small town. I brought with me some numbers, we just got our new Yearbook so these are pretty fresh as of last year [...] how many of us there are. Worldwide, there are 7,046,419 Jehovah's Witnesses. That number changed since the book came out a couple weeks ago, we'll find out why in a minute here. There's 1,154,275 Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States alone, and we have, as an organization we have 105,296 congregations worldwide. We are in 236 lands where we actively preach and publish. We print in over 450 different languages; we have 392 languages available to you on our public website--which, by the way, is a very useful tool for information or research, there's search engines on there of questions and answers that are available to anybody; that proper address is <a href="http://www.watchtower.org/">http://www.watchtower.org/</a>. There's a lot of different ones out there, that is the official one, that is <em>the</em> one that our organization puts out. Now there's an interesting fact with all these numbers that we've been talking about that I came across. Every year, as an organization, Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide observe the sacrifice that Jesus Christ provided for all mankind. We call this the memorial of the last supper. Now Jesus instructed his followers to do this at <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+22%3A19">Luke 22:19</a>. And every year at this memorial, there's many more people than there are Jehovah's Witnesses. By "many more", I mean more than twice as many. Like I said, there's seven-million-some-odd Jehovah's Witnesses in the world; last year at the memorial of Jesus' sacrifice, there was 18,168,323 people. Again, more than twice as many Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide.</p><p>A little bit about our activity. Most people know us as the people who come and knock on their doors, and more than likely they're not usually happy to see us. I'll tell you how some of this is shaping up and how it works: last year we spent 1,557,788,344 hours conducting Bible studies and preaching door-to-door. Last year, every month, for the monthly average we had 7,619,270 Bible studies conducted each month. Now that's not that many Bible studies, that's an average for each month; a Bible study with us lasts six months to a year depending on a person's schedule and how much time they have to devote to it. And it boils down-- and I'll just go on with some more numbers-- last year, 276,233 people worldwide were baptized as Jehovah's Witnesses. That's an average of 756 a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.</p><p>One of the other things people are concerned about--you see it especially in our area of Pennsylvania, people are a little conservative and concerned--how is the work financed? Where does the money come from? At our meetings, no collections are taken. There's contribution boxes on the back wall; people donate as their heart leads them to. There's no record of who gave what. No one will ever know. That's between you and God, what you gave. We also collect voluntary donations from people at their doors when we drop off magazines or books. People understand that printing isn't free--the magazines are free, but the printing of it is not free--so some people enjoy donating that-- to us that way. Those are the only two sources we have other than the organization itself and its members supporting it. It's always enough. We just spent millions of dollars already in Haiti in relief funds. And the money is always there.</p><p>One of the hot questions people usually want to know about Jehovah's Witnesses is, do they go door-to-door trying to convert people to their religion? The answer is no, we do not, not directly. What we do do is try to fulfill the assignment that Jesus gave us. I mentioned Matthew 28 before, I'm gonna read that. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+28%3A19-20">Matthew chapter 28, verses 19 and 20</a>... when Jehovah's Witnesses come to your door, this is what they're doing... this is a command from Jesus; he said, "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span>. And, look! I am with <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span> all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." What we do is try to teach people the Bible. We want people to be able to make informed decisions. The decision is always theirs. We can't force anyone to do anything. Jesus didn't force people, and we certainly wouldn't try. Now, we also realize, because most people--and I should say, all people--have been given the gift of free choice, free will, by God himself, we can't take that away. We know that most people will not be interested in what the Bible has to say; they will not be interested in what we have to say to them. They will certainly not be interested in learning about Jehovah God. Now, why can I say that? Why would I say such a negative thing about something we spend so much time doing? Based on a scripture that Jesus himself said, in Matthew chapter 7... <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+7%3A13-14">Matthew chapter 7, verses 13 and 14</a>... it says, "Go in to the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it." So again, even though we understand that most people will not be interested, we do not take that as a reason to excuse us from our responsibility to try and help people and to teach them.</p><p>Do Jehovah's Witnesses have their own Bible? As an organization, until 1955, Jehovah's Witnesses used the King James Version. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society did appoint a translation committee who remain unanimous [<em>sic</em>], and they translated the Bible. So they translated it. We do print the Bible, millions of them every year. But we did not write the Bible, and we did not change the Bible. Now this can be proven by looking at two of our basic thoughts, our basic beliefs. In <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=2+Timothy+3%3A16-17">2 Timothy, chapter 3, verses 16 and 17</a>... and there it says, "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." The point I want you to remember from that is, where it starts off and says, "All Scripture is inspired of God". Now we take that thought and go back to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+22%3A18-19">Revelation, chapter 22, verses 18 and 19</a>... it's very clear, it says, "I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll. If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll, and if anyone takes anything away from the words of this scroll, this prophecy, I will take his portion away from the trees of life out of the holy city"... These are two fair warnings given by God himself. He says, "Do not add anything to it; do not take anything away from it." In Timothy we read that "inspired by God"; there's no way to improve on something that's inspired by God. So even though as an organization we print millions of Bibles a year, we have not changed it. We are not permitted to change it. Now, most of Jehovah's Witnesses do use several translations in their personal study, and <em>The Watchtower</em> magazine itself frequently quotes from different-- different versions. Most of us use the <a href="http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/index.htm">New World Translation</a>, which is printed by the Watchtower Society. We like this translation because we believe it is accurate; it has restored Jehovah's name to places where it originally belonged, appeared; and it is written in understandable modern language. It's not only easier for us to understand; when you're going to a Bible lesson with someone who may or may not be all that familiar with the Bible, it's easy for them to understand too.</p><p>Now, what do we believe? I'm going to have to throw a lot of scriptures at you, because that's what we believe. I want to teach-- I want to show you that each thing that we believe has a scripture-- at least a scripture that it is based on. I thought I'd start at the beginning, in Genesis, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Genesis+1%3A27">Genesis chapter 1 and verse 27</a>... there it simply says, "And God proceeded to create the man in his image. In God's image he created him; male and female he created them." Jehovah's Witnesses believe that God created people, created humans, and put them on the earth. We do not believe in evolution, we do not believe in the Big Bang Theory, we simply believe what the Bible tells us about creation. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Genesis+3%3A3">Genesis chapter 3 and verse 3</a>... and it's where Eve is answering the serpent, it says, "As for eating of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'Y<span style="font-size:85%;">OU</span> must not eat from it, no, <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span> must not touch it, that <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span> do not die.'" So we believe that everlasting life was available to human beings, and that hinged on our-- or their-- obedience to God. Now, most of us know that they didn't follow through with that. So, we go back to Romans chapter 5... <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+5%3A12">Romans chapter 5 and verse 12</a> explains the situation that we're in today, and it says, "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned". We believe that the sin and the death that we are all dealing with today, many of the problems, spread from Adam's disobedience, from the imperfection that we've all inherited from him, because Adam chose to live outside of Jehovah's power and guidance.</p><p>Now, we also don't believe that it's permanent. We believe that it was not God's will for us to live seventy or eighty years, get sick, and die. We believe that he had an antidote to that problem that-- that Adam caused for us. We believe that Jehovah [made this sure (?)] when he made a promise to Abraham in Genesis chapter 22... Genesis, chapter 22, and you read <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Genesis+22%3A17-18">verses 17 and 18</a>... where God's saying-- saying to Abraham, "I shall surely bless you, and I shall surely multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of sand that are on the seashore; and your seed will take possession of the gate of his enemies. And by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my name [<em>sic</em>--should be 'voice']<em>.</em>" The fact that this was-- this promise was fulfilled by God is recorded for us in Matthew chapter 1 and verses 1 through 16, where we can read that Jesus did descend from Ad-- from Abraham's family. Now, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus Christ came to earth to die for their sins. We get that from <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+20%3A28">Matthew chapter 20 and verse 28</a>... we read that the reason Jesus came to earth, like he himself says in that verse, is to declare the kingdom of God and to give his soul a ransom for many, all human-- human beings. Now, if we look at 1 Corinthians chapter 15... <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+15%3A22">1 Corinthians chapter 15 and verse 22</a>... there it tells us, "For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive." We believe that the perfect creation with free will, Adam, chose to disobey God and put all his descendants into the problem that we're in. We also believe that the perfect man Jesus was faithful to God and will buy us out of that problem. We believe that faith in Jesus Christ is our only opportunity to be reconciled with God.</p><p>Now, do Jehovah's Witnesses believe that only they will benefit from Jesus' sacrifice? Absolutely not. We do not believe that. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+6%3A23">Romans 6:23</a> tells us that "the wage of sin is death". Those who have died have paid for their sins. The wage of sin was death. Jesus' sacrifice will buy their lives back for them. Jesus Christ himself explained this in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+5%3A28-29">John chapter 5</a> when he said that "all those in memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out". And the apostle Paul expressed his belief in this in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+24%3A15">Acts 24 and verse 15</a>, where Paul says, "And I have this hope toward God, which hope these men themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."</p><p>So, resurrected to where? Jesus, remember, referred to all those in the memorial tombs. So let's keep that thought in mind when we get a point here from Ecclesiastes... Ecclesiastes chapter 9, I'm going to read <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ecclesiastes+9%3A5">verses 5</a> and 10. It says, "For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten." And <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ecclesiastes+9%3A10">verse 10</a>: "All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol"--or the grave--"the place to which you are going." The principles stated in those verses are-- are a sampling of the principles that Jehovah's Witnesses use that we do not believe in a burning, tormenting hell. They believe that if someone was not conscious of anything, they had no knowledge, no wisdom, they didn't know what was going on around them, it would be impossible to torture them.</p><p>The Bible, though, does teach us of two different resurrections. We can read about that again in the book of <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+15%3A35">1 Corinthians, chapter 15 and verse 35</a>. There it says, "Nevertheless, someone will say, 'How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?'" Let's go on to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+15%3A40">verse 40</a>. It says, "And there are heavenly bodies, and there are earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort." The two different kinds of resurrection. I believe that this is one of the beliefs that Jehovah's Witnesses-- that Jehovah's Witnesses have, that 144,000 will be resurrected to heaven. Now, that's the one resurrection. That belief is based on Revelation chapter 15-- Revelation chapter 14, I'm sorry, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+14%3A1-3">14:1-3</a>. There it said that "I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps, and they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to learn master the song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who have been bought from the earth." That's a resurrection, they've been bought from the earth. Now, let's go back to Revelation chapter 5... and I'll read <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+5%3A9-10">verses 9 and 10</a>. You remember we dropped off where they were singing the new song. It says, "And they sing a new song, saying: 'You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth." We believe that if these hundred and forty-four thousand are going to rule as kings over the earth, it only makes sense there has to be someone on earth to rule over. To see who that is, we can go back to the book of Psalms... <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+37%3A29">Psalms chapter 37 and verse 29</a>, and it says, "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it." So Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the earth will be populated forever by humans, flesh-and-blood humans. When we stop for a minute and think about it, isn't that what God had in mind in the first place? Human beings living on an earthly paradise ruled by heaven. This fits in perfectly with another belief we have that that's found in Ezekiel... <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ezekiel+18%3A4">Ezekiel chapter 18, verse 4</a>. It says, "Look, all the souls--to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son--to me they belong." Now here's the point: it says, "The soul that is sinning--it itself will die." We do not believe that the teaching of the immortal soul is a Bible teaching. Again, we believe that God is capable of correcting what Satan has caused, and can have the earthly paradise living and inhabited by flesh-and-blood human beings.</p><p>We believe that Jesus Christ is God's Son, but not God himself. Again, our belief is based on some scriptures, and these are scriptures that Jesus himself explained. In the book of John, chapter 8 and verse 42... <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+8%3A42">John chapter 8 and verse 42</a>, Jesus is speaking, it says, "Jesus said to them, 'If God were <span style="font-size:85%;">YOUR</span> Father, <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span> would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One that sent me forth." So Jesus is saying he didn't do according to his will, but according to his God's will. And if we go back a couple of pages to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+14%3A28">chapter 14 and verse 28</a>, again it's Jesus speaking, he says, "Y<span style="font-size:85%;">OU</span> heard that I said to <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span>, I am going away, and I am coming back to <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span>. If <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span> loved me, <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span> would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am." As an organization, Jehovah's Witnesses understand the relationship between Jehovah God and Jesus Christ as that of a father and son, an obedient son, rather than a Godhead or a Trinity.</p><p>We also believe that the war described in Revelation chapter 12 occurred in 1914. We read that, in Revelation 12--it fits in very nicely with what we now know as recorded history. Revelation 12, I'm going to read <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+12%3A7-8">7, 8</a>, and 12. "And war broke out in heaven, Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was there found a place for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." And drop down to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+12%3A12">12</a>, "On this account be glad, <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span> heavens and <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span> who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the devil has come down to <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span>, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time." Now this year, this year that he was cast down to heaven [<em>sic</em>] according to our beliefs, is 1914. Happens to be the same year as the very first world war. When it says he was misleading the entire earth, that's the first time the entire earth went into battle. Now, many non-Witness politicians, economists, and historians all agree--they've written many books on the subject--that something monumental, something global, happened in 1914. They don't agree with our belief, of course, but they believe that something happened that mankind changed and has <em>never</em> been able to achieve the peace they had prior to 1914. If you're interested in the timeline of those events, I brought some books along here--about fifteen of them--that explain to you, it's about page 215, I think, there's a real nice diagram of the timeline that you can do the math yourself. [Note: the diagram is on page 216 of <em>What Does the Bible <u>Really</u> Teach?</em>]</p><p>Now, we believe that we are currently living in this short period of time where Satan is so frantic. We believe that we can see this stream of course by the fulfillment of such prophecies as <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=2+Timothy+3%3A1-4">2 Timothy chapter 3, verses 1-4</a>. It says, "But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of the-- for men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderous, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God." We take a scripture like that and fit it with Matthew chapter 24... unfortunately you don't have to do a whole lot of research on this because it's been in the news, if you've seen it on the paper and on television lately... <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+24%3A7">Matthew 24:7</a>, Jesus again is speaking, he says, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another." According to the numbers provided by the United Nations, during this talk, the about 35 minutes we're going to spend together, 87 people will starve to death worldwide. That's a food shortage. The world wars--there's always been little skirmishes and battles and wars here and there in different countries; it's never been global before. The earthquake, I don't have to tell you about; you've been reading about that yourselves.</p><p>In short, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that God is willing and able to correct all the damage that Satan has caused on earth and to mankind. We believe that he has empowered his Son, Jesus Christ, to restore the earth back to the paradise conditions that it originally had, and also to restore obedient humans back to the everlasting life and the perfect health that they originally had available to them. We believe that the not-too-distant future is described for all of us in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+21%3A4">Revelation 21, verse 4</a>, where it says, "And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away." Now, we accept this assignment, we know that most people will not be able-- will not be willing to listen to us. But again, as an organization we don't take that as an excuse why we don't do it. We feel, according to our beliefs, that we have the obligation to help people find that narrow road that Jesus talked about before it is too late. Thank you.</p></blockquote>After Uriah had finished and the audience had given him another round of applause for coming to talk to us, it was time for the question-and-answer session, and I did not foresee the passion. It was very intense, very probing, and very non-stop. The first question came from a student near the back whom I didn't know, and that question was, If Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in altering the Bible, why do they print their own version of it? Uriah answered that the purpose of the New World Translation is just to offer a translation in relatively modern language, because it's difficult to have Bible studies with someone when you have to introduce them not only to biblical concepts, but also to the archaic language of, e.g., the King James Version. The second came from a friend of mine and fellow member of Mars Hill. She asked what the difference was, then, between the New World Translation and the New International Version, if both are just translations into contemporary language. Uriah's answer surprised me a bit. He said that most Jehovah's Witnesses use several different translations in their personal study, not just the New World Translation, and that <em>The Watchtower</em> probably quotes from the NIV several times per year. In his own opinion, other than the whole 'divine name' issue, the NIV is a pretty good translation, and that "people can learn what God wants out of the NIV".<br /><br />The third exchange was initiated by a red-headed bloke in the center section (I'll be calling him 'Sweyn'), and he'd prove to pose a number of very penetrating questions to Uriah. Sweyn asked who Jehovah's Witnesses think that Jesus is, and how they read <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+1%3A1">John 1:1</a>. So Uriah read that verse from the New World Translation (which renders it in a radically different and rather unsatisfactory way, compared to many of the more mainstream translations), and his interlocutor queried why the "a" appears in the New World Translation, but not in other translations. Uriah said that he doesn't know much about the details because he finds grammar boring, but said that in one of the publications he'd brought, we could find information about "the Hebrew [<em>sic</em>] manuscripts" and how they support the JW rendering. (In point of fact, the JW grammatical case for their interpretation of John 1:1c ignores the context, both historical and literary, and also is seriously undermined by a number of the sources they cite in favor of it. The fact of the matter is that while the standard English translation isn't ideal because it's potentially open to a confused modalistic view that the Greek text excludes, the NWT's rendering is far worse because it explicitly perverts the text to make it more amenable to an Arian or polytheistic view that the Greek text also excludes, when viewed in proper context.)<br /><br />Still in the same discussion with Sweyn, Uriah then made the mistake, perhaps, of raising <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Colossians+1%3A15">Colossians 1:15</a> and noting that only Jesus could have been the ideal sacrifice, because whereas "God himself can't die", Jesus is the highest created being through whom all else was created, and so was the most precious created thing. Sweyn then asked how Jesus could have created all things if he himself were created. Uriah could have shed more light on the matter by reading the NWT's rendering of the verse, which inserts the word "other" several times (illicitly, I think); Uriah instead just repeated several times that it isn't that hard to understand. Finally, Sweyn explained that in Jewish culture, 'firstborn' had certain connotations of rights and privileges; Uriah said that he agreed entirely but didn't see it as undercutting the JW interpretation of the verse--though it does, I think, undercut the rationale for the JW interpretation of the verse, which implicitly glosses "firstborn" as "first-created".<br /><br />Finally, we moved on to the fourth exchange with a question posed by my best friend Daniel. To summarize his question, he noted that the Society seems to have a rather hierarchical, top-down structure, and that interpretation is done by the upper echelons and then transmitted authoritatively (and in authoritarian fashion) to the rank-and-file membership; however, a group can also have a ground-up way of working, such that the rank-and-file search the scriptures, discuss it, and then seek to come to an agreement such that the leadership in effect echoes what the group as a whole has already reached as a consensus. The question, then, was why Jehovah's Witnesses choose the first model over the second. Uriah's reply was that their organization did follow the first model, as the example of the Allegheny Bible Students shows, and he also said that if someone doesn't believe what the Society is teaching, then that person shouldn't join.<br /><br />The fifth exchange... alright, so it's time to introduce another character, an older fellow whom I'll call 'Aethelbald' (if I'm going to use Hebrew names for Jehovah's Witnesses and Greek names for Latter-day Saints, why not Anglo-Saxon and other European pseudonyms for everybody else?) who used to take a number of classes on campus; he was a fellow student of mine in one of my courses last year, and he really enjoys coming to Mars Hill events, so when he saw a flier for this one in the community, he knew he'd enjoy it. However, he sometimes has a tendency to ask lots and lots and lots and lots of questions. Often they're good questions. But in this sort of venue, it typically poses problems when it comes to budgeting time. So his initial question was whether the New World Translation (which seemed to be a focal point of interest here) was rendered from the original languages; Uriah answered that yes, it was a word-for-word translation into twentieth-century English grammar. Aethelbald then changed tacks somewhat and asked, why 144,000? Uriah replied that that's what Revelation says and so he believes it, and when Daniel jumped in to help clarify Aethelbald's somewhat muddled question, Uriah explained that there is everlasting life on earth for the 144,000.<br /><br />The sixth exchange - I don't remember which student posed it - concerned the issue of what the difference between Jehovah's Witnesses and non-Jehovah's Witnesses in the new world will be, and why we should study and labor now if everyone gets saved. (In the talk, Uriah had come across with somewhat universalist tendencies.) Uriah answered that while only the 144,000 go to heaven, everyone else has a chance to be resurrected to the paradise earth, where they can potentially remain if they are obedient. He said that if someone perishes in the impending Armageddon, however, there's no cleansing of sin for them - because, after all, if God personally destroys someone at that final conflict, it wouldn't make much sense for him to immediately resurrect them and give them a second change, or otherwise what would the purpose of their destruction be? When asked about the fate of people like serial killers and Hitler, Uriah replied that it's a matter for God's judgment, not ours, as to whether or not perhaps they'll be saved in the end.<br /><br />Aethelbald had the next exchange, again, and asked about people who lived before Jesus or who never heard. Uriah stressed in reply that we're all born imperfect, and that they'd get their chance to hear the message in the resurrection to paradise earth.<br /><br />The next two questions came from a fellow in my political philosophy class (I'll call him 'Mieszko') and Aethelbald yet again. The first bloke turned his attention to the issue of 1914, noting that there had been a number of previous global skirmishes, and that most Christians tie <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+12">Revelation 12</a> (the war in heaven) to Genesis; in short, they see it as protological rather than eschatological. Aethelbald added that many countries abstained from World War I, and so if by "world war" we mean a war that involved the entirety of the world, World War I actually doesn't qualify. Uriah's answer was essentially along the line that historians agree that World War I was in fact a true world war of a sort different than anything that had come before it, and that all countries were affected somehow, in some capacity or another. (The same, of course, could be said for a number of earlier wars, perhaps, given the wide sense of "affect" that Uriah used; but he didn't deal with that.)<br /><br />Finally I had a chance to pose a question, and so I asked Uriah to explain disfellowshipping to us. I figured that since it hadn't come up yet, it might be good for the audience to be aware of that process and its perils. Uriah explained that if someone sins within the congregation, they're not disfellowshipped immediately for that, but rather are given a number of opportunities to repent; only those who refuse to repent throughout this process will be disfellowshipped, which entails no social contact with Jehovah's Witnesses other than an annual visit from the elders. He explained two purposes for disfellowshipping. The first was to cut unrepentant sinners off in the hopes of using the pain of that process to goad them into repentance. (In short, he essentially conceded that disfellowshipping is a way of using extreme social pressures as a means for maintaining control over dissidents and enforcing conformity.) The second is to protect the congregation from contaminated by bad association. Thus, the first function is for the good of the person disfellowshipped, and the second function is for the good of everyone else.<br /><br />The eleventh question was posed by another friend and member of Mars Hill; I'll call her 'Ealhswith'. Noting that Uriah had said that in JW interpretation, Satan wasn't cast down to earth until 1914, Ealhswith asked what the explanation was for evil prior to that. He answered that while Satan wasn't confined to earth prior to 1914, he was involved and had free rein to travel between heaven and earth up until that time, as is seen in the prologue of the Book of Job. In 1914, however, Jesus was enthroned as king in heaven and promptly cast Satan down to earth. When he was asked why Jesus wasn't enthroned as king at the resurrection, Uriah didn't really have an answer for that, to my recollection.<br /><br />The twelfth issue was posed by my former associate pastor, whom I'll call 'Harthacanute'. He noted that even if the word isn't used in the Bible, the concept of the Trinity is present. Uriah of course disagreed, and cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+17%3A15-26">John 17:15-26</a> and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+14%3A28">John 14:28</a>. He then asked the familiar canards about Jesus praying to himself. This goes to show that Uriah hasn't been paying very good attention to what I've told him about the actual doctrine of the Trinity. Unfortunately, I may need to have the same talk with Harthacanute, because he said that yes, Jesus was praying to himself. For the information of any readers, no, the doctrine of the Trinity does not require that Jesus pray to himself. The doctrine of the Trinity is that one God exists eternally as three divine persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit, the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son; but all are capable of having relationships between them. Thus, Jesus praying is the Son praying to the Father; this is a case of God praying to God, but not of one god praying to another god, nor of one person praying to himself. There's also nothing wrong, from a Trinitarian point of view, with any of the verses that Uriah referenced. John 17 states that the goal is the unity of the Trinity to be reflected in the unity of the Church; while the sort of maximal ontological unity in the Trinity is impossible to reduplicate in the Church, the Trinity remains the model of unity for the Church in the way that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit enact all things together with total cooperation and ever-flowing love. John 14:28 asserts that the Father is of higher status than the Son (at least in the incarnation), but even eternal <em>functional</em> subordination is entirely compatible with eternal <em>ontological</em> equality. Anyone who cites John 14:28 as an anti-Trinitarian prooftext--at least without a whole lot of supporting discussion--is simply uninformed at best. Uriah, in posing these question, showed that he doesn't understand the orthodox teaching on the Trinity; unfortunately, the majority of professing orthodox Christians are in the same boat, which is a real shame and a serious blemish on Christian education in much of the contemporary church.<br /><br />Aethelbald jumped in again for the thirteenth exchange, which degenerated into ridiculousness. His first question was what Jehovah's Witnesses teach about the Holy Spirit. Uriah explained that the holy spirit is "God's active force to get things done". When Aethelbald noted that the Holy Spirit is often mentioned alongside the Father and the Son, Uriah replied that the eleven apostles are also listed together in the Bible, but that this doesn't make them one being. Aethelbald then launched into a series of other questions, such as the origin of the name "Watchtower" (taken from the defenses of Jerusalem), the name "Kingdom Hall" (a hall to discuss the kingdom of God), and even why Jehovah's Witnesses build Kingdom Halls without windows. Uriah had clearly addressed this very explicitly in his talk (even though I've never seen the big deal), which shows that Aethelbald hadn't been paying attention at that point. When Uriah reiterated the explanation, Aethelbald went on to extol the virtues of having windows, such as letting light in and seeing the beauty of God's creation. Uriah pointed out that Jehovah's Witnesses do see the beauty of God's creation--when they go outside, which they do often.<br /><br />The fourteenth question came from Mieszko again, who brought up an issue that I figured would come up eventually. Mieszko asked how Jehovah's Witnesses deal with things like dinosaurs and the fossil record; since Jehovah's Witnesses are very vocal anti-evolutionists, this is a pretty good question to pose. Uriah answered that Jehovah's Witnesses believe that dinosaurs and other creatures in the fossil record definitely existed, and that they did so during the 6000-year days of creation, but that we're presently in the seventh created day. The fifteenth question came from someone I don't know, and was about what Jehovah's Witnesses think of all the hoopla surrounding the year 2012. Uriah said that he's looking forward to the movie, and that's about it, because he doesn't buy into the craze. His touch of humor drew a few laughs from the crowd.<br /><br />Harthacanute provided the sixteenth exchange, asking about the distinction between a disfellowshipped person and a sinner. Harthacanute explained that he's undergone the equivalent of disfellowshipping, and being shunned didn't help him at all; rather, grace did, and having people reach out to him did. Uriah said that he drove here tonight with a sinner, since we're all sinners; disfellowshipping is reserved for those who refuse to repent, which is the key issue. Uriah also said that disfellowshipping is done only after very careful consideration, and Jehovah's Witnesses are always willing to welcome back disfellowshipped people once they repent. While he himself has never been disfellowshipped, Uriah said that he knows a number of returned disfellowshipped persons who can testify that disfellowshipping "works beautifully".<br /><br />I'm not totally sure who launched the seventeenth exchange, but it might've been the same fellow as the third, Sweyn. The question was what salvation is and how we're saved. Uriah said that salvation is being rectified to God and obedient to Christ, which requires having faith in him alone. When asked why someone should become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, Uriah responded that everyone should join the religion that they truly believe in. (This response could have been better; I imagine that Sweyn was asking if there would be any <em>practical</em> difference between being a JW or a non-JW, even assuming that Jehovah's Witnesses are correct.)<br /><br />Daniel asked the eighteenth question. He noted that when dealing with biblical authority, Jehovah's Witnesses and others often appeal to biblical passages that talk about biblical authority. This being circular if used as an ultimate justification, however, Daniel wanted to know why Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the Bible, apart from what the Bible claims for itself. Uriah's reply was that no other book in the world is so well attested by prophecy fulfilled so much later than when it was given.<br /><br />I posed the nineteenth question, hoping to expose some more controversial points of Jehovah's Witness doctrine, by asking what sort of body Christ had when he was raised from the dead. Since Uriah is a tad idiosyncratic here, I should've seen it coming: his answer was that Christ was raised from the dead in a physical body, as seen in the encounters that the disciples had with the risen Christ. I should note, however, that Uriah's ideas about the resurrection of Christ are in tension with the historic view of Jehovah's Witnesses. For example, they believe that "on the third day after Jesus died, his heavenly Father resurrected him back to spirit life", that "on the third day after Jesus died, Jehovah raised him back to spirit life" (<em>What Does the Bible <u>Really</u> Teach?</em>, pp. 46, 51), which appears to exclude the idea that he was intially given a physical resurrection and later either exchanged or transformed his physical body for a non-physical existence. Their founder, Charles T. Russell, notoriously went so far as to declare that Jesus' "human body was, however, supernaturally removed from the tomb; because had it remained there it would have been an insurmountable obstacle to the faith of the disciples" and that "whether [Jesus' physical body] was dissolved into gases or whether it is still preserved somewhere as the grand memorial of God's love, of Christ's obedience, and of our redemption, no one knows" (<em>The Time is at Hand</em>, p. 129), and he also went so far to affirm just several pages later to denounce the view that Jesus was raised in a tangible human body as being unbiblical, as reducing Jesus to an eternal servant, and as preventing him from ever seeing his Father (<em>The Time is at Hand</em>, p. 132)--which is, of course, ridiculous. I had a follow-up question, but I got cut off by - you guessed it - Aethelbald. He wanted to know who makes decisions among Jehovah's Witnesses, and Uriah's answer was that Jesus does, because all policies are based on the Bible and the assemblies arrive corporately at the truth.<br /><br />The twenty-first question came from Ealhswith, who wanted to know what sort of holidays Jehovah's Witnesses celebrate. Uriah answered that when it comes to Christmas, Easter, Valentine's Day, Halloween, and other things like that, Jehovah's Witnesses never participate, and that the reason for this was their clear pagan origins. Uriah also said that it never fails to amaze him that other professing Christians <strong>do</strong> celebrate those holidays, since their pagan origins are so well-documented by the newspapers every year. Many people, he said, just seem not to care, because practical considerations are more important to them than doing what God wants. (One of their complaints about Easter is that the name is of pagan extraction; but, as I mentioned to several of my friends after the event, Jehovah's Witnesses have no problem referring to the days of the week by names that dedicate those days to pagan deities; many of the early Christians did have objections to that practice.)<br /><br />Sweyn jumped back in with the twenty-second question. Turning to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+7%3A9">Revelation 7:9</a>, Sweyn said that it seemed to him that the 'great crowd' spoken of in this verse was stationed before the throne of God; but it seemed to him, opined Sweyn, that this would place the great crowd in heaven, rather than on earth, which is contrary to Jehovah's Witness teaching. Uriah said that this 'great crowd' in heaven is actually a crowd of angels, and that if Sweyn would like, Uriah could pass along a copy of <em>Revelation--Its Grand Climax at Hand!</em> for him through me.<br /><br />I should note that what Uriah said here is most definitely <strong>not</strong> the official Jehovah's Witness understanding of that passage. Uriah was quite incorrect on that point. In fact, the very book he recommended teaches the exact opposite:<br /><blockquote><p>Yes, the holding back of the four winds allows for the salvation of another group besides the 144,000 members of spiritual Israel: a multi-language, international great crowd.--<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+7%3A1">Revelation 7:1</a>. (<em>Revelation--Its Grand Climax at Hand!</em>, p. 119)</p><p>J. F. Rutherford, who at that time took the lead in the worldwide preaching work, gave Scriptural proof that the modern-day other sheep are identical with that great crowd of Revelation 7:9. [...] How can we state so positively that the great crowd is this modern-day group of dedicated Christians who hope to live forever on God's earth? Previously, John had seen in vision the heavenly group "bought . . . for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation." (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+5%3A9-10">Revelation 5:9, 10</a>) The great crowd have a similar origin but a different destiny. Unlike the Israel of God, their number is not predetermined. (<em>Revelation--Its Grand Climax at Hand!</em>, p. 122)</p></blockquote>Aethelbald had the twenty-third question, which concerned ecumenism. Uriah answered that Jehovah's Witnesses eschew that because they believe that they have the one true religion, and so interfaith efforts would be a compromise of that belief. Finally, I had an opportunity to ask my follow-up question. I asked Uriah what sort of body he believes the risen Christ has now, and he answered that it's spiritual rather than physical; I then asked what he means by 'spiritual body', and he replied that he has no clue what exactly a spiritual body is, and that if any of us ever figure it out, he'd love to know. (Of course, Uriah could have been more forthright by also mentioning that he definitely believes that the 'body' Jesus now has is without a doubt numerically distinct from the body in which he died--which is, in my opinion, about as unbiblical a statement as could be made.)<br /><br />Finally, Aethelbald had a few other questions/statements, but by this point I along with most of the crowd were rather tired of hearing them. All I have written in my notes from the evening is that "[Aethelbald] rambles more (25) . . . .". Might've been a good question or two, I'm not sure. In the meantime, Daniel and I had been quietly conferring throughout the last several questions about the need to wrap things up, and so as soon as I perceived even the slightest pause in Uriah's discussion with Aethelbald, I stood to my feet and announced the need for the official discussion to end, but also invited everyone to feel free to stay and discuss things further.<br /><br />And that's how the event officially came to a close. I breathed a sigh of relief, and perhaps over half the people stayed around for a while to talk to one another about a wide range of things. A number of people went up to collect some Jehovah's Witness publications of interest, while Liron attempted to give me an impromptu lesson on why the Trinity is unbiblical (which is interesting, since I never mentioned the Trinity during the event or at any other time to him). He mostly took me to several passages in the Gospel of John and in Revelation, continually laying stress on passages that talk about worshipping only God and passages that refer to the Father as Jesus' God. I repeatedly said to him that <strong>if</strong> it were the case that Jesus were not, in fact, God, then yes, it would be idolatry to worship him. I wasn't really in the mood to correct all the many things incorrect with Liron's reasoning, but fortunately Daniel was there to engage him in discussion, allowing me to excuse myself and see some of my friends and meet a few new people. Daniel's a very smart fellow with a solid grounding in the Scriptures and a good capacity for reason, so I know that Liron was in good hands.<br /><br />After bidding farewell to a number of people who had to leave, including my mother and Harthacanute (and, eventually, the Jehovah's Witnesses), and sharing with some people about upcoming Mars Hill events, I stayed to talk to a smaller group of perhaps 6-7 people for a while about some of the issues raised at the event before we all parted ways and I returned to my dormitory, with a flier from the event taped to my chest for fun.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-54092875791382272582010-02-18T20:54:00.001-05:002010-03-14T20:42:50.841-04:00LDS Lesson #10Another meeting with LDS missionaries... in America? You betcha. When I left Greece, Creon and Orestes agreed to forward my contact information onward to the mission president of my area. (Turns out to be a fairly large mission, apparently.) So after playing a fair bit of 'e-mail tag' with that guy for a while, I eventually succeeded in getting in touch with a pair of missionaries from the ward under which my college would fall. I'll be calling these guys 'Sthenelos' and 'Demophon'. (Think those are terrible choices? Deal with it.) So today I had a meeting with them at the local pizza joint. They had a dinner scheduled for after that, so all we really got was perhaps a soda or cup or water for Demophon before I got there - if I was going to be the only one eating, I can save money and just use the campus meal plan for lower quality food.<br /><br />At any rate, as I walked around the building from behind to the sound of helicopters overhead, I caught a glimpse of the missionaries in the side window and smiled at them. I think they knew I must be the one they were looking for. Finally entering and sitting down, we struck up a chat with some brief introductions, and they asked how my day had been, what I study (religion, philosophy, and math - the third is a minor, not a major), why I picked religion as a field of study, etc.<br /><br />The next part really caught me by surprise. Sthenelos asked me if I'd met Creon when I was in Greece, and I said that I had. He was surprised to find that Creon was one of the missionaries I'd studied with there... and I was surprised to learn that Sthenelos and Creon had been college roommates at <a href="http://www.byu.edu/">Brigham Young University</a>! We were all absolutely amazed at the idea that the missionaries I'd meet here back at home should have such a close connection to the ones I met in Greece - the elders of course ascribed this to divine providence. Anyway, we spent some time sharing some stories, and I filled in Sthenelos on how Creon's been doing over there, and told him that Creon had been transferred from Athens to Thessaloniki a month or so ago, and all that. Creon really is a great guy, and I could tell that I'd also get along with Sthenelos and Demophon. I agreed to help Sthenelos get in touch with Creon again.<br /><br />Also, they asked where I'd met the missionaries in Greece, and I mentioned that I'd met them in Mars Hill in Athens. Demophon asked if that was a cafe of some sort (he thought he'd been to one in NYC), and I replied that no, it was where Paul preached when he was in Athens, and then Demophon felt somewhat silly. They also asked if I had been able to attend church over there, and I said that while I'd been to some functions at the LDS Church, I hadn't attended any actual 'services', though I had gone to an evangelical church in Athens. I did say that I'd like to attend one sometime, though, so we'll see if we can work that out. I won't be able to attend as soon as I'd like because I agreed to attend a service that my interesting roommate 'Childeric' is organizing on campus.<br /><br />Anyway, we basically got to know each other better, and they asked how far I'd gotten in my discussions with the missionaries in Greece; they were a bit surprised to know that I'd gotten basically all the way through. They also asked what interested me in their church, which has always been a difficult question for me to answer, but I basically said that the range of opinions present there that aren't common in other Christian groups really interested me--which I think is the reason why I'm so fascinated with the field of Mormon studies; I told them the story of how I got my first copy of the Book of Mormon. Also, somewhere in all of this, the missionaries presented me with, not just a copy of the <em>Doctrine and Covenants</em>, but a full-scale triple combination. That's the Book of Mormon, the D&C, and the <em>Pearl of Great Price</em>, all in a single volume. Cool!<br /><br />They also asked if I had any questions to throw at them, which kind of caught me off-guard. For some reason, when I envisioned this meeting, it never occurred to me to think of that. So I didn't have any, for once, but I said that I'd try to think about it until next time. And they also asked me whether, if I came to believe in their church and all that, if I'd be willing to be baptized; my reply was that "if God tells me it's the truth, then I'm going with it", and when asked about the First Vision, I also said that if it was indeed a real occurrence and was indeed from God, then it's undoubtedly significant. I could tell that they weren't really used to finding people who are passionately willing to act on those sorts of things; they said basically as much themselves, and said that when most people come across the First Vision, they don't seem to get what the fuss is about.<br /><br />Anyway, I don't recall everything that happened at our meeting, but I do remember being asked about the atonement and explaining how grateful I am for what Christ did for us, and the missionaries essentially said several times that they were very confident that if I kept praying sincerely as they recognized that I currently am and would persist in my determination, God would reveal the truth to me. Also, I don't recall either of them explicitly bearing testimony ("I KNOW that this Church is true", etc., etc.)<br /><br />The last thing I remember inside the restaurant (after setting up a next meeting) was them asking if there was anything they could do for me, and my answer was simple: "Pray for me." After that, we left, and we got to walk to the corner down the street together while chatting before we had to part ways, and I headed up to the cafeteria where I had a decent light dinner with a number of my friends from the campus gay rights group.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-32632175002887394662010-02-18T07:43:00.006-05:002010-02-20T21:14:03.118-05:00A Reply to Mark HunterOn 12 February 2010, I received a <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/12/faqs.html?showComment=1265960580414#c7001102780035147431">comment</a> under the <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/12/faqs.html">Frequently Asked Questions</a> section. The remarks were offered by Mark Hunter, a former Jehovah's Witness elder who, having converted from their group to orthodox Christianity, is now affiliated with <a href="http://www.freeminds.org/">FreeMinds</a> and blogs on their site at <a href="http://www.freeminds.org/blogs/watchtower-teachings/index.php">Watchtower Teachings</a>; he tells a few elements of his personal exit narrative <a href="http://freeminds.org/blogs/watchtower-teachings/jesus-found-him-an-appeal-to-jehovah-s-witnesses.html">here</a>. I hope he posts more soon; he hasn't done so since this past August, and I enjoy reading his material. His comment here contained a number of points deserving response, and now that I have the opportunity, I'd like to offer a reply. I'll quote the entirety of his comment first:<br /><blockquote><p><em>I wonder if you really see what the problem with the Watch Tower Society actually is?</em></p><p><em>They claim to be chosen by God and that they alone speak for Him on earth. All other Christians are branded as "so called" and are slurred in Watch Tower publications as being "false" and "evil doers".</em></p><p><em>At communion everyone is encouraged to refuse the sacraments.</em></p><p><em>Jesus is reduced to a mere created messenger boy.</em></p><p><em>What I find surprising in your blog is the number of times you find their teaching unobjectionable. You also found the Memorial enjoyable.</em></p><p><em>I know you've researched Russell and Rutherford. Surely you can see the demonic influence these men were under when they came up with their "unique teachings". The Watch Tower Society is a Christ-denying, high control religious group who claims to speak for God. I'm sure you know about the lives that have been lost due to the prohibitions of vaccines, organ transplants, and blood transfusions.</em></p><p><em>Our battle isn't against flesh and blood. The Kingdom is not a matter of talk. Scoring points against JWs intellectually helps no one. They need prayer and the breakthrough of the Holy Spirit, not theological debates.</em></p><p><em>While I've found your blog interesting, sadly I'm disappointed that you don't talk more about praying for the JWs. You mention you pray before they arrive. What do you pray for? Their salvation or your ability to show off your theological knowledge?</em></p></blockquote>And now to the response, which I'll strive to offer in an irenic manner. To a great extent, I concur wholeheartedly with what he's said. One of the greatest problems with the Watch Tower Society is their strong sectarian attitude, their claim to uniquely be Jehovah's chosen people to the exclusion of all other Christians, who are dismissed as being unfaithful to God. And that is a <em>serious</em> problem, not something trivial. Their take on communion reflects a class system in which only the 'elite', the 144,000, are in the New Covenant--and that is not only a grave theological error, but a spiritual trainwreck, because <em>all</em> Christians are in the New Covenant, without exception. Only in the context of that grave error is their approach to the eucharist even intelligible; and to encourage any Christian to abstain from the table of the Lord for any reason other than being spiritually unprepared (i.e., having unrepented sin) is absolutely outrageous. And while describing the Jehovah's Witness view of Jesus as a "mere [...] messenger boy" is a bit of a caricature, Jehovah's Witnesses do not do justice to the honor that Christ deserves, as their boast about minimizing songs devoted to him shows quite clearly. It does no good to 'damn with faint praise', as it were, by extolling Christ as the highest created thing, the instrumental cause of the cosmos, and the ruler of God's theocratic domain; Jesus is no less than the almighty and uncreated God the Son, the efficient cause of the cosmos, and the absolute Lord of heaven and earth. To quote three verses from one of my favorite Wesleyan hymns:<br /><br /><div align="center">See there! The newborn Savior see,<br />By faith discern the great I AM;<br />'Tis he! The eternal God! 'Tis he<br />That bears the mild Immanuel's name.</div><div align="center"></div><div align="center"></div><div align="center"></div><div align="center"></div><div align="center">The Prince of Peace on earth is found,<br />The child is born, the son is given;<br />Tell it to all the nations round,<br />Jehovah is come down from heaven!</div><div align="center"></div><div align="center"></div><div align="center"></div><div align="center"></div><div align="center">Jehovah is come to raise<br />Dying creatures from their fall,<br />And all may now receive the grace<br />Which brings eternal life to all.</div><br />The Jehovah's Witnesses, regardless of how much they get right (when contrasted with, e.g., the Islamic repudiation of Jesus as the unique Son of God or as the ultimate and final self-revelation of God to mankind), profoundly fail to do adequate justice to Christ.<br /><br />Now, Mark next expresses a note of surprise at "the number of times [I] find [JW] teaching unobjectionable", and that I even "found the Memorial enjoyable". And I can see the reason for this surprise. However, one of my goals when engaging in interfaith dialogue is to be as charitable as reasonably possible. I want to understand Jehovah's Witnesses on their terms, not merely my own, and to appreciate everything that can be said in their defense. And so I seek to be generous. (Besides, I have to note that many of the criticisms I have of their group - other than their heresies and the authoritarian hierarchy - are valid criticisms of a number of evangelical groups.) Much of what they teach is unobjectionable. (And, I will add for the sake of making myself perfectly clear, a great deal of what remains is dangerous heresy.) I suppose that it would make for a more productive dialogue about the topic if Mark were to point out an instance in which I found something unobjectionable where, in his opinion, I should have objected. As for my enjoyment of <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/04/revenge-of-kingdom-hall-lords-evening.html">the Memorial service</a>, yes, I did enjoy it, as I mention in my account of <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/05/study-meeting-18.html">the eighteenth 'study' meeting</a>. Mostly, however, this was the enjoyment of an observer studying a religious movement from the outside. The spiritual significance I derived from it was only because communion itself is such a moving thing; however, because of the manner in which Jehovah's Witnesses have perverted it, that power was remarkably blunted, as I noted in my account of the Memorial.<br /><br />Mark next says that "surely [I] can see the demonic influence [Russell and Rutherford] were under when they came up with their 'unique teachings'". "Demonic influence"? Possibly. I'm not one inclined to see demonic involvement in most places (Todd Bentley excepted...). A number of the "unique teachings" of Jehovah's Witnesses that originated in the Russell era were derived from streams of thought present within sectarian Anglo-American Protestantism, as thoroughly documented by M. James Penton in his <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Delayed-Story-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802079733/">Apocalypse Delayed</a></em>. A number came from George Storrs; as Penton notes:<br /><blockquote>An examination of the <em>Bible Examiner</em> indicates clearly that Russell earned the doctrines of the ransom atonement of Christ and the restitution of mankind to a paradise earth directly from Storrs and his associates plus, of course, the doctrine of conditionalism. It is evident, too, that the practice of celebrating the Memorial of the Lord's Supper once a year on the supposed date of the Jewish Passover, 14 Nisan, as is done by Jehovah's Witnesses today, was learned by Russell from the editor of the <em>Bible Examiner</em>. Then, finally, Russell's negative feelings towards churches and religious organizations may have come directly from Storrs. (Penton, <em>Apocalypse Delayed</em>, pp. 16-17)</blockquote>Russell's heretical deviation from the physical resurrection of Christ most likely came from Joseph Seiss, a Lutheran minister from Philadelphia, whose <em>Prophetic Times</em> was very prominent in the millenarian milieu in which Russell's theology was formed; and Russell took his understanding of the <em>parousia</em> of Christ from the Emphatic Diaglott, while some of his early thought on Revelation was rooted in interpretations by Adam Clarke and Isaac Newton. Russell's chronological speculation came largely from Nelson Barbour, who himself modified a great deal of it from John Brown's 1823 book <em>Even-Tide</em>, which put the fall of Judah in 604 BC and hence calculated that the end of the Gentile times would occur in AD 1917, which Barbour pushed back to 1914. And, of course, Russell's anti-Trinitarianism is hardly anything new; such movements have been around for quite some time, and Unitarianism has had a sadly important role in the history of American religious thought. Perhaps Russell and Rutherford were under demonic influence; I would hesitate to pronounce a verdict either way. But it is clear that they, as flawed men, adopted many errors from their predecessors in Anglo-American millenarianism and added further errors unto them. And while calling the Watch Tower Society "Christ-denying" might be a bit strong, there's no doubt that the Watch Tower Society has serious problems and has, through their pronouncements on various medical issues, caused untold death and suffering among its followers. Whether this is proportionately greater than similar issues in various orthodox Christian ecclesial bodies, I don't know, but the blood transfusion issue is founded on a ridiculous misunderstanding on their part, while the vaccine and organ transplant issues are merely further nails in the coffin of the Watch Tower Society's credibility.<br /><br />Mark finally ends with a few paragraphs challenging me, suggesting that perhaps I value "scoring points against JWs intellectually" over their salvation. Allow me to dispel that notion quickly. I must first, of course, add the caveat that I don't think that all Jehovah's Witnesses are outside of the body of Christ; or, at least, I see no reason that their heresies should of necessity exclude them from salvation. Nevertheless, the Watch Tower Society is more of an obstacle than a help for them, and they profoundly need the truth of God. And I do pray before I meet with them--not a prayer that I'd trounce them or have a rhetorical advantage or anything of the sort, but that God would send his Spirit to work in their hearts and to open their eyes to the truth of the faith delivered once for all to the saints, and that they would if at all possible be led out of their heretical sect and into the freedom of the sons and daughters of God. It's not about me or anything that I can do; it's all about God and what he can do in their lives, if they'll not harden their hearts against him and if they'll show a willingness to abandon their teachings in exchange for the pure truth of the Scriptures. True, I don't usually go into the details of my prayers before they arrive, though I may try to do so a bit more often now. The reason is mostly that it would be about the same on every occasion, and since it also transpires before they arrive, I generally omit it from the account, which I typically begin with their arrival.<br /><br />Let there be no mistake: Jehovah's Witnesses do need prayer. Not prayer for a merely human triumph, as though they were the opponent, but prayer for their deliverance from grave error and instead turn more fully to Christ. And I hope that this response to Mark Hunter has both been seasoned with grace and dealt with his concerns about what he's read here; and, of course, I thank him for his counsel.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com9tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-38773716953191788352010-02-13T20:45:00.002-05:002010-02-17T20:01:53.699-05:00JW Study Meeting #32Today at 2:00 PM, the Jehovah's Witnesses caught me just a little bit off-guard. I had lost myself in some genealogical research (one of my other hobbies), and the time had passed by quite quickly. So as I let them in, I said a silent prayer in my mind that their minds would be enlightened with the truth of God and that they would come to know God as he truly is. Uriah stepped in, and he had with him another Jehovah's Witness, whom I'll call "Raanan", who had some profoundly noticeable borborygmi throughout the meeting. We showed Uriah a <a href="http://www.restaurant.com/">nice, useful site</a> that can help him save some money on eating out (this led to some discussions of various restaurants in the area), and Uriah also approved a flier I'd made for something coming up. (Stay tuned!)<br /><br />Then Uriah asked what I'd thought of the circuit assembly, and I replied that I enjoyed it. (This is true, though with the caveat that I enjoyed it as an observer, but I have difficulty imagining reaping actual spiritual benefit from it.) We talked about assemblies for a while longer; Uriah remarked once again on how much more comfortable the seats are there, and Uriah and Raanan both talked for a while about some experiences they had when assemblies/conventions were held at more outdoor venues. Uriah had never gotten hit with any rain, but there was some light mist on one occasion; Raanan hadn't been so fortunate. We also spoke a bit of Ithamar's family, and I mentioned how much I really enjoyed talking to Talya (and, as it turns out, I'm not alone in having difficulty making out what she's saying). They also told a few other stories; Raanan related one about his grandson's friend's family moving to the Philippines. He had another interesting story about how a school had invited people of several faith traditions (a Jewish rabbi, a Lutheran minister, and himself as a Jehovah's Witness) to explain to some sixth-graders what their respective groups believe; the rabbi was a no-show and the Lutheran barely gave five minutes, so Raanan had to fill up most of the time, and then a number of the kids asked really intelligent questions. Later in the conversation, Uriah asked me how my girlfriend has been doing, and so I told him about her current quest for a more "solid" teaching position, and how she's currently substituting whenever she has the chance.<br /><br />We finally got to the 'Bible study', turning to Chapter 10 of <em>What Does the Bible <u>Really</u> Teach?</em>, pp. 96-105; today we'd be getting through the first nine paragraphs on pp. 96-100. Before Uriah had me read the first paragraph, he asked me the three opening questions:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Surprise, it's your turn to read. [*laughs*] Before you do that, "do angels help people?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Yep.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> You think so, okay. "How have wicked spirits influenced humans?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> By suggesting horrible ideas, by tempting towards sin, by diverse manners, one might say.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. "Do we need to fear wicked spirits?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> No.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay--</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Be wary, but not fear.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay! Okay, good, very good. Very good! Now you may read, sir.</p></blockquote>With that, I launched into the first paragraph, which dealt asserted that it's important to learn about the angels--to study biblical angelology, in other words--because "getting to know Jehovah God includes becoming better acquainted with his angelic family", and the question for the paragraph was, "Why should we want to learn about angels?" Well, only an absolute dunce would fail to see the answer they were seeking, so I fleshed it out by referring to the angels as part of the great crowd of witnesses watching us contend for the faith on earth, and as part of the companionship we'll have in the age to come. Uriah, as is customary, added his own question:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> If a Christian is trying to teach God's truth to a non-Christian, a person who<br />didn't have an opportunity to believe or whatever, do you think the angels have<br />any feelings about that?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I believe that they will be working alongside the Christian.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay, good. Okay.</p></blockquote>Raanan read the second paragraph, which.... well, here it is:<br /><blockquote>The Bible refers to angels hundreds of times. Let us consider a few of these references to learn more about angels. Where did angels come from? <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Colossians+1%3A16">Colossians 1:16</a> says: "By means of him [Jesus Christ] all other things were created in the heavens and upon the earth." Hence, all the spirit creatures called angels were individually created by Jehovah God through his firstborn Son. How many angels are there? The Bible indicates that hundreds of millions of angels were created, and all of them are powerful.--<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+103%3A20">Psalm 103:20</a>.</blockquote>Uriah then read the question ("Where did angels come from, and how many are there?"), and so I essentially returned the content of the paragraph, which--aside from the underlying sense of Jesus as merely the instrumental cause of their creation, rather than participating in the divine activity as efficient cause (although in a somewhat more instrumental fashion, with comparison to the Father)--was relatively unobjectionable, from a biblical standpoint. When I mentioned that the angels were created through/by Christ, Uriah asked whether that meant that there were no angels before Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and I made clear that the angels antedate the earth. The third paragraph, which I then read, states this explicitly and also adds that <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Job+38%3A4-7">Job 38:4-7</a> "shows that angels have feelings, for it says that they '<em>joyfully</em> cried out together.' Note that '<em>all</em> the sons of God' rejoiced <em>together</em>. At that time, all the angels were part of a united family serving Jehovah God." Again, nothing terribly controversial, save perhaps to an ardent Thomist. No difficulty in summarizing it to answer the associated question: "What does <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Job+38%3A4-7">Job 38:4-7</a> tell us about angels?" (Seriously, if the level of difficulty in JW study questions is at all indicative of the level of intelligence of the average American, I weep for my country.) In giving my answer (which Uriah said was "excellent"), I mentioned that the unison of the angels would be disrupted later, and so he asked me to recap that further, to which I replied that "we know that there was the war in heaven, we know that Satan drew away about a third of the angels into his rebellion with him and thus broke the harmony that had once existed among the angelic sons of God".<br /><br />We moved to the next section, titled "Angelic Support and Protection", comprised of paragraphs 4-6. Again, from a biblical standpoint, nothing especially objectionable, not unless we're going to delve into real minutiae. (But, as will become clear later in this account, I have nothing against such delving...) The fourth paragraph talks about the angels becoming sad/happy in response to our (dis)obedience to God, and the question was, "How does the Bible show that faithful angels are interested in human activities?" When I answered, I tossed in the bonus remark that it makes perfect sense for the angels to care, since "the human story is basically the centerpiece of God's creation, it's the narrative that it's all about, in one sense, then naturally the angels are going to be fascinated by it because they know that this is what God is truly interested in". (Uriah liked this answer and then brought up the God's-will-being-done-in-heaven thing, and then had to explain to Raanan that we have different views on that clause in the Lord's Prayer.) The fifth paragraph gave a number of examples of angelic intervention: saving Lot, rescuing Daniel, freeing Peter from prison, and strengthening Jesus in Gethsemane. The related question was, "What examples of angelic support do we find in the Bible?" (Hint: I just listed the ones they listed.)<br /><br />The sixth paragraph stated that, while "angels no longer appear visibly to God's people on earth", they still protect us from spiritual harm, i.e., from the influence of evil spirits, rather than physical harm. There were two questions for this one. The first was, "How do angels protect God's people today?" After I gave the answer, Uriah asked if I believe that as well, and I said that I did; he asked if it was safe to say that I've never personally seen an angel, and I said, "Not that I know of." Laughing, he remarked, "Good! I don't always get that answer!" The second question for the sixth paragraph was, "What questions will we now consider?"--a pretty easy one, considering that the paragraph ended with three such questions. This whole section was fairly uneventful, but after the fifth paragraph, Uriah tried tossing me a little surprise bonus question:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> What about the times where we see that an angel came to strengthen Jesus? A couple paragraphs ago, we read that Jesus created the angels--or, Jehovah created them through Jesus. So how does that make sense, if he needed them to strengthen him?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Well, of course, when Jesus became human, he took upon himself things like human weakness, physical weakness, the need to eat, the capacity to be profoundly disturbed, all sorts of things--conditions that would at times be greatly allieved by assistance.</p></blockquote>Initially, I figured that Uriah was going to be tossing this out there as sort of a challenge to belief in the full deity of Christ, which he knows I believe quite deeply. However, when he phrases it as a problem to reconcile this biblical passage with a statement found earlier in the Bible Teach book, it becomes clear, at least to me, that this was another sort of test case designed to let us work on a problem shared by both of our positions, not something unique to Trinitarians like myself. Uriah found my answer quite acceptable.<br /><br />The seventh paragraph was also not too objectionable; it spoke of Satan's great success in corrupting the antediluvian world, noting that Abel, Enoch, and Noah stood as three of the very few who remained faithful to God. The question was, "To what extent did Satan succeed in turning people away from God?" Like I said, aside from maybe a quibble as to the historicity of the 'antediluvian world' depicted in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Genesis+1-6">Genesis 1-6</a>, nothing objectionable, at least not from a biblical standpoint. Uriah added the question, "Who did he not turn away--and I don't mean names, I mean as a group." The answer, as we both agreed, was those who refused to surrender to temptation and who instead insisted upon remaining loyal to Jehovah. The eighth paragraph stirred up some more controversy, mostly because I felt like being annoying. The text read:<br /><blockquote>In Noah's day, other angels rebelled against Jehovah. They left their place in God's heavenly family, came down to the earth, and took on fleshly bodies. Why? We read at <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Genesis+6%3A2">Genesis 6:2</a>: "The sons of the true God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose." But Jehovah God did not allow the actions of these angels and the resulting corruption of mankind to go on. He brought upon the earth a global flood that swept away all wicked humans and preserved only his faithful servants. (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Genesis+7%3A17">Genesis 7:17</a>, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Genesis+7%3A23">23</a>) Thus, the rebellious angels, or demons, were forced to abandon their fleshly bodies and return to heaven as spirit creatures. They put themselves on the side of the Devil, who became "the ruler of the humans."--<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+9%3A34">Matthew 9:34</a>.</blockquote>Before I'd deal with the question, I had a counter-question. This part of the text explicitly identifies the "rebellious angels" and the "demons", and I wanted to know if they had any explicit biblical backing for that statement. I let Uriah sort of fumble around for a while trying to figure out exactly what I was getting at, and then finally I said that the reason I was asking is because a number of Jewish and Christian exegetes from around the time of Jesus, give or take a couple centuries on either side, identified the demons with the Nephilim rather than their parents, the "sons of God". (I chose not to call into question the identification of the "sons of God" in this passage as angels, although one major traditional interpretation is that the "sons of God" are merely human, perhaps rulers; mostly, I didn't raise that issue because I'm inclined to favor the more traditional angelic view of the passage.)<br /><br />This part included lots of silence and thumbing through Bibles. Basically, they stumbled around for a while, and the closest they came to offering a Scripture citation was <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Genesis+6%3A1-2">Genesis 6:1-2</a> again, which of course never uses the term "demon" or anything like it; Uriah had originally considered trying to reference something in Revelation, but realized that it wouldn't do the trick, and so he eventually conceded that he'd never heard that question before (as I reminded him, I like to keep things surprising), and he agreed to see if he could find an answer for me. Later on, Uriah did indeed e-mail me the entry under "demons" from the JW two-volume publication <em>Insight into the Scriptures</em>. Needless to say, the article never actually provided an answer to the question, since the most it could do was insinuate that since the rebellious angels are wicked spirit creatures who want to subvert God's plan, and the demons are wicked spirit creatures who want to subvert God's plan, they're just obviously one and the same.<br /><br />Anyway, the closest that Raanan came to giving a good reason to reject the Nephilim interpretation is that it would require the Nephilim to have an immaterial component to their being, and I agree. Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe that anything has such a component, but Uriah informed Raanan that I'm not convinced by their anthropological monism as of yet. And, as I added, even if one did accept that humans do not generally have immaterial aspects that endure beyond the death of the body, such a person could readily posit that the Nephilim, being the (hybrid?) offspring of angels and humans, might have a different ontological make-up that would include such an element. (I also made sure to mention that I'm not personally committed to the view that identifies the demons with the Nephilim; I mostly just wanted to see if they could come up with an answer, especially considering how proud they are of deriving all their beliefs exclusively from Scripture apart from "interpretation".)<br /><br />We also discussed their opinion (shared, I think, with some early Christian thinkers) that the story of the Nephilim is related to the stories of Greek and Roman demigods. (Also, somewhere in here Uriah gave me the latest issues of <em>The Watchtower</em> and <em>Awake!</em>, as well as a print-out of an article about the pagan origins of Valentine's Day in the orgiastic festival of Lupercalia; when Uriah mentioned orgies, I made the comment, "Or as some people I know would call them, the good ol' days", which got a few laughs.) We also had a brief discussion of Greek food, and I mused with nostalgia about the way gyros are made in Greece.<br /><br />At any rate, we agreed to deal with the 'demon' thing further later. When I suggested that perhaps I'd find the quotes of the aforementioned early exegetes of the passage, Uriah flippantly said something to the effect that <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Mark+7%3A7">Mark 7:7</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men</span>") renders it irrelevant. (This brings me to another mini-rant: one highly disappointing thing about Jehovah's Witnesses is that absolutely zero consideration is given, at least where not obviously convenient, to anything not written by them or contained in the Bible. It's <em>sola scriptura extremis</em> of the worst sort, and it's little wonder that the result is a often-subtle perversion of the Scriptures.) I gave qualified answers to the questions for the eighth and ninth paragraphs: "How did some angels become demons?", "To survive the Flood of Noah's day, what did the demons have to do?", "What happened to the demons when they returned to heaven?", and "We will consider what with regard to the demons?" Again, working within the framework they've established, the questions and their intended answers aren't so much unbiblical as largely irrelevant. Uriah also asked why demons feel the need to mislead people, and Raanan and I both had the same thought: "Misery loves company." As to why they use people in this way, my answer was that since God himself is unassailable, the worst they can do is to hurt those God loves--namely, us.<br /><br />That brought us to the end of what we'd intended to get through today, and my mother and Uriah had a conversation about how my grandparents had been good friends of Atarah's parents; this, of course, led to a conversation of many of the bars in the area, since my mother had been in them since she was small enough to walk under the tables; the conversation eventually turned to dogs biting people. So, at last, I bade the Jehovah's Witnesses farewell until 22 February, and after giving us some advice on some home repair stuff (the pipes between the floors of the house have issues, and now the ceiling is falling apart... again....) they trekked down to their car; they'd had to park quite a distance away because the sides of the streets were packed with tremendous quantities of snow from the blizzard.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-630860218442804362010-02-12T11:38:00.003-05:002010-02-12T21:17:15.655-05:00Evangelical Reflections on the 2010 Circuit AssemblyWell, <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/01/2010-circuit-assembly-day-one.html">both</a> <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/01/2010-circuit-assembly-day-two.html">days</a> of the 2010 circuit assembly, themed "Safeguarding Your Spirituality", are over now. And so, just as <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/08/evangelical-reflections-after-jw.html">I did</a> after the 2009 district convention, I'd like to offer a few thoughts. It's been a while since the assembly now, so my memory is shrouded in some haze. Still, here's what I remember. First of all, a positive note: props to Jehovah's Witnesses on the new songbook, or more specifically on the music. It sounds significantly less "canned" than the recordings they used with the old songbook. Of course, I still think that live music would be nice for a change, but hey, baby steps, I suppose. Second, the circuit assembly really does resemble a smaller scale district convention. It was kind of surprising the extent to which that was the case, at least for me. Third, the social dynamics among Jehovah's Witnesses aren't wholly dissimilar to those you might find in an evangelical church, which is both good and bad. Young children playing in the aisles are doted on by loving older folks, and yes, kids are cute. On the other hand, younger Jehovah's Witnesses--by which I mean, generally, those in their 20s or younger--give the impression of being every bit as cliquish as their evangelical counterparts. With basically the sole exception of Almog and company, the younger Witnesses kept themselves in socially isolated groups; only a select number of the middle-aged Witnesses took much interest in greeting outsiders.<br /><br />As for the content of the assembly, I think it's very clear by now that <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+5%3A8">1 Peter 5:8</a> is the favorite Bible verse of Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole. It gets mentioned numerous times each day at both district conventions and circuit assemblies. Beyond that, I found it interesting to listen for what was particularly attacked from the podium, in hopes of reading beyond that into what issues particularly plague or concern Jehovah's Witnesses. If that can be done, it's safe to say that they're very worried about pornography and sexually explicit communication. That topic came up several times throughout the course of the talks, being mentioned by a substantial proportion of the speakers. (This leads me to wonder whether these days there's an upswing in porn use among Jehovah's Witnesses.) The same was true, interestingly enough, about severing social ties with disfellowshipped friends and relatives. What this all tells me is that these days, there are a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses out there who are finding the Watchtower Society's attempts at social control to be overly restrictive and so are maintaining greater contact with disfellowshipped family members than the Society thinks they ought.<br /><br />Those are just a few thoughts, aside from the somewhat ridiculous measures to keep people from saving seats too early (particularly in this weather!).JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-44982912108017254882010-01-31T23:13:00.016-05:002010-02-12T19:03:47.842-05:002010 Circuit Assembly - Day TwoThis time around, although we decided to arrive later than before, Zibiah and I still had to wait in the vehicle for a while until 8:00 AM rolled around. Naturally, I used the time mostly to read. When we got inside and reserved our row, I spent about half an hour further reading before setting my book aside and getting up to socialize. Now, I should note that socializing is not exactly playing to my strengths; a 'people person', I am not. But I did eventually find Mephibosheth, and he introduced me to his wife and sister, which whom I chatted for a while. They then finally introduced me to the newest family to move into the local JW congregation. They came from Minnesota, where there's no large assembly hall like the one here, so this was somewhat new. Ithamar, the husband, is a congregational elder, and he and his wife Meret have two teenage daughters. My most interesting conversation, however, was with Meret's mother Talya. Talya, you see, grew up in England and has been a Jehovah's Witness since she was eleven years old. And that's been since the time of World War II, which means that she's been a Jehovah's Witness for probably at least 65 years now - and that's a lot longer than anyone else I've ever met. I couldn't hear her very well because she's somewhat soft-spoken, but I could tell that she was enjoying our conversation. I think there was some muttering about Christendom in there, but I'm not sure; I know she'd said that her father turned to Jehovah's Witnesses after becoming disaffected with the Church of England. I got to hear about what it was like to be a Jehovah's Witness back in those days. For one, during the war they weren't allowed to receive packages from overseas, which meant that books couldn't be shipped from the United States; they'd have to print their own. But because of the needs of the war effort, their printing plant in Britain wasn't permitted to purchase new paper. Fortunately, just before the war, they'd bought plenty of paper in bulk. Initially, their door-to-door efforts there involved a "model study book" and a record with a brief talk by J. F. Rutherford. The first book they got to displace that a bit was Rutherford's <em>Deliverance</em>, and eventually they got a new set of four publications: <em>Children</em>; <em>The Kingdom is at Hand</em>; <em>The Truth Will Make You Free</em>; and something to the effect of <em>New World</em>. We chatted a bit about religion, too, and I asked her about <em>Let God Be True</em> since I was reading it. Those are only the highlights of the conversation, but it was longer and good, and I hope to have a chance to talk to her again sometime.<br /><br />The assembly finally kicked off with song #42, "Assist Those Who Are Weak", based on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+20%3A35">Acts 20:35</a>, as well as a prayer. The first talk was "Safeguard Your Spirituality by Examining the Scriptures Daily", delivered by 'Noam', whom I'd met the day before; the talk focused on using the daily devotional <em>Examining the Scriptures Daily</em>. (I doubt they'd refer to it as a "devotional" as used in contemporary evangelical parlance, but I've looked at it and that's essentially how it functions.) At one point during the talk, there was a little girl in the row in front of me who couldn't stop coughing, from the sounds of things; it actually sounded like she might be having some real trouble. Her parents, rather than considering that possibility, merely reprimanded her several times. Didn't seem to be a model of good parenting, not that I'd know much about that sort of thing.<br /><br />Anyway, Noam started by pointing out how Jehovah's Witnesses are constantly being bombarded by Satan, who "controls the world, so he doesn't need to focus on them [i.e., the worldly people]". He also cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ephesians+4%3A22">Ephesians 4:22</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">That YOU should put away the old personality which conforms to YOUR former course of conduct and which is being corrupted according to his deceptive desires</span>") and then said that the faithful and discreet slave had published <em>Examining the Scriptures Daily</em> in order to safeguard JWs' spirituality. The text for the day was <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+34%3A8">Psalm 34:8</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Taste and see that Jehovah is good, O YOU people; happy is the able-bodied man that takes refuge in him</span>"), and the comments were chiefly drawn from a 15 June 2008 article in <em>The Watchtower</em> called "Keep the Love You Had at First". Jehovah's Witnesses are to recall what attracted them from "false religion" to "Jehovah's organization", perhaps the importance of Jehovah's name or else the lack of torment (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ecclesiastes+9">Ecclesiastes 9</a>). Whatever the case, "what convinced one person may be totally different from what convinced another". However, when the initial passion fades, Jehovah didn't change, and so the onus is entirely on the Witness, who may have changed or may be preoccupied. Noam asked whether they "take the time to meditate on new things that we've learned", or if their lives are marked by telltale signs like less study, less prayer, or decreased meeting attendance, or even - horror! - a noticable lack of zeal in the ministry compared to their original zeal. Noam cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=James=1%3A22">James 1:22</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">However, become doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning</span>") and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Colossians+3%3A2">Colossians 3:2</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">YOU slaves, be obedient in everything to those who are [your] masters in a fleshly sense, not with acts of eye-service, as men pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, with fear of Jehovah</span>") before returning to the comments in <em>Examining the Scriptures Daily</em>, which essentially amounted to Jehovah sustaining the believer. Finally, Noam counseled the audience to "keep focusing on the speakers here" and the message they have, because this is "another provision from Jehovah" for their edification.<br /><br />Noam's talk was followed by the day's symposium - I'm really starting to dislike these symposiums - called "Focus on Spiritual Activities". The first talk, delivered by a Witness whose name I don't even want to try to spell correctly (let's call him Br. Guipetti), focused on focusing on spiritual activities "As Single People", and he launched it off with <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+15%3A58">1 Corinthians 15:58</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Consequently, my beloved brothers, become steadfast, unmovable, always having plenty to do in the work of the Lord, knowing that YOUR labor is not in vain in connection with [the] Lord</span>"). Speaking of the tendency of marriage to make one "anxious for the things of the world", he cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+7%3A34">1 Corinthians 7:34</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And he is divided. Further, the unmarried woman, and the virgin, is anxious for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in her body and in her spirit. However, the married woman is anxious for the things of the world, how she may gain the approval of her husband</span>") to illustrate how martial status can impact one's role and focus. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+19%3A11">Matthew 19:11</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">He said to them: 'Not all men make room for the saying, but only those who have the gift'</span>") was used to show that "singleness is a gift", and Br. Giupetti asked the single folks in the audience, "How well are you using this gift?" Pointing to the example of Paul, he explained that "Paul was unmarried, perhaps widowed [...] according to some scholarly opinion". One can take advantage of being single to devote greater time to study, reading, prayer, and meeting attendance, because single people have the freedom to do so. Some can even pioneer or attend international conventions. After all, "isn't having plenty of work to do [...] just one way to show Jehovah our appreciation"? Br. Giupetti made reference to a 14 April 2008 letter from the Governing Body that spoke of "personal Bible study" as being "not a suggestion" but rather "Jehovah's personal direction". Before the inevitable interview, Br. Giupetti cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Zephaniah+1%3A14">Zephaniah 1:14</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">The great day of Jehovah is near. It is near, and there is a hurrying [of it] very much. The sound of the day of Jehovah is bitter. There a mighty man is letting out a cry</span>").<br /><br />The interview was with two single female Witnesses. The first said that thanks to her gift of singleness, she had been pioneering regularly for the past eight years. Three and a half years ago, she had the time to take a Spanish language class, and now she attends a Spanish-speaking congregation in the area, and since August 2009 had also been with a Spanish-speaking group at another congregation. Being single also gave her the time to research in order to "improve the quality of my comments". The other sister was also in her ninth year of pioneering. When she was 18, she'd made a vow not to date until she was 21, and had basically just kept going that way ever since. This allowed her to attend two international conventions, as well as work an English-speaking mission field in Puerto Rico, as well as work on some study projects to overcome her natural shyness. She finished by commenting that she had great "confidence in Jehovah's organization" because of its clear "unity". After the interview, Br. Giupetti cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+7%3A29-31">1 Corinthians 7:29-31</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Moreover, this I say, brothers, the time left is reduced. Henceforth let those who have wives be as though they had none, and also those who weep be as those who do not weep, and those who rejoice as those who do not rejoice, and those who buy as those not possessing, and those making use of the world as those not making use of it to the full; for the scene of this world is changing</span>") as a text that "certainly applies to you single ones", and then finished up with - what else? - another citation of <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+15%3A58">1 Corinthians 15:58</a>.<br /><br />The second talk in the symposium, delivered by one Br. Taylor, was how to focus on spiritual activities "As Married Couples". A successful marriage, he said, requires spirituality, even though the world ignores all of this. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ecclesiastes+4%3A12">Ecclesiastes 4:12</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And if somebody could overpower one alone, two together could make a stand against him. And a threefold cord cannot quickly be broken in two</span>") shows this, because the third strand of any strong marriage is "Jehovah God", and this will provide the strength needed to safeguard spirituality. "Being busy in Jehovah's service" as a couple brings great joy. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+16%3A3-4">Romans 16:3-4</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Give my greetings to Prisca and Aquila my fellow workers in Christ Jesus, who have risked their own necks for my soul, to whom not only I but also all the congregations of the nations render thanks</span>") gives a good example of this; Aquila is mentioned six times in the Scriptures, and never without his wife. The audience was told to keep their marriages strong through a focus on cultivating true spirituality. A spiritual husband watches over his wife's spirituality and prays with her daily, while a spiritual wife supports her husband's role in the congregation. (May I take this opportunity to mention how increasingly irritated I am with this sort of all-pervasive patriarchy-oriented complementarianism?) A "family worship program", for example, "draws us closer to each other and especially to Jehovah". We must "desire to do more in Jehovah's service", though making ourselves available in this way will involve sacrifice. Some couples were advised to consider moving to an "area where there's a greater need for Kingdom publishers", and Br. Taylor cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Thessalonians+2%3A8">1 Thessalonians 2:8</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">So, having a tender affection for YOU, we were well pleased to impart to YOU, not only the good news of God, but also our own souls, because YOU became beloved to us</span>") to drive home his point about a willingness to exceed one's "spiritual comfort zone". Some couples may wish to "make themselves available for additional theocratic training". These are in fact "goals for all married couples to seriously consider, according to our circumstances". There followed interviews with two married couples, the first of which had been married for nine months; the husband was a new ministerial servant with aspirations of becoming an elder and a commitment to 50 hours of ministry each week, while the wife had quit her job on her husband's advice in order to remain a pioneer, and she had been exploring "alternative forms of witnessing" like "telephone witnessing". The second couple also had the wife as a pioneer, and the family keeps a small home that's just barely large enough to sustain their ministry, and they share all tasks in the home, in secular life, and in the ministry. The wife remarked that "we learn to rely on each other and not ourselves". After the interviews, Br. Taylor urged the audience to "purposefully think about goals" and to "reflect on Jehovah's blessings and the theocratic privileges that we've enjoyed together". After all, "set reasonable spiritual goals" and you'll be blessed, he said, referencing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Malachi+3%3A10">Malachi 3:10</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">'Bring all the tenth parts into the storehouse, that there may come to be food in my house; and test me out, please, in this respect,' Jehovah of armies has said, 'whether I shall not open to YOU people the floodgates of the heavens and actually empty out upon YOU a blessing until there is no more want'</span>"). Most importantly, he said, we must keep focus "as this system of things nears its end".<br /><br />The third and final talk of the symposium, about focusing on spiritual activities "As Parents and Children", was delivered by Br. Birdman. Starting with a quotation from <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Deuteronomy+6%3A4-6">Deuteronomy 6:4-6</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. And you must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your vital force. And these words that I am commanding you today must prove to be on your heart</span>"), he exhorted his hearers to cultivate this sort of total love; <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Deuteronomy+6%3A8-9">verses 8-9</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And you must tie them as a sign upon your hand, and they must serve as a frontlet band between your eyes; and you must write them upon the doorposts of your house and on your gates</span>"), too, give "an idea of the focus that's needed", a focus that "identifies our homes as places where God's Word is respected and put to use". He advised to "develop good spiritual habits first" before having children". Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Philippians+1%3A10">Philippians 1:10</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">That YOU may make sure of the more important things, so that YOU may be flawless and not be stumbling others up to the day of Christ</span>"), he counseled not to allow the "anxieties of life or worldly pursuits to distract" us from the goal. Children can easily see through parental hypocrisy, and it's vital to set a good spiritual example. In all settings, a family must be immersed in spiritual activities (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Deuteronomy+6%3A7">Deuteronomy 6:7</a> - "<span style="color:#009900;">And you must inculcate them in your son and speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road and when you lie down and when you get up</span>"), so that children can be encouraged to "pursue long-term spiritual goals". They then interrupted this talk to bring us a demonstration/scene/skit/whatever-you-call-it that portrayed a teenage JW girl having a conversation with her high-school guidance counselor (played by the girl's mother). The girl was portrayed as very academically strong, particularly in business classes, and so the guidance counselor had prepared some college application forms. Confronted by the girl's declaration that, rather than go to college, she planned to focus on a career in "the full-time ministry of Jehovah's Witnesses", the guidance counselor tried to persuade the girl that this course of action would be a waste of real talent, but the girl maintained that she had a good reason and held out until finally the guidance counselor gave up and backed off. After the demonstration, Br. Birdman said that Jehovah rewards "those earnestly seeking him", and then came yet another interview, this time with several parents who have "children who are doing well in the truth". (From the sounds of it, parents with children who apostasize would never be interviewed in this context; that'd be a bad role model for parenting, eh?) One single father, a ministerial servant who was separated from his non-JW wife talked about his struggles when his children are staying with her and are exposed to 'non-theocratic lifestyles and celebrations'. Then there was a couple from Maryland with two daughters, and they described the family worship night as a "blessing", citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+18%3A20">Matthew 18:20</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst</span>"). After the interviews, Br. Birdman cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+127%3A1-5">Psalm 127:1-5</a> and said that an "active relationship with Jehovah" is, for one's children, vastly more important than more trivial things like good education, and that children must be "prepared, protected, and directed to spiritual success".<br /><br />This concluded the symposium (finally!), and then we sang song #19, "God's Promise of Paradise", based on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+23%3A43">Luke 23:43</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And he said to him, 'Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise'</span>"), and then heard some announcements, which - just like yesterday - included <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+1%3A12">Romans 1:12</a> and a plea for monetary donations at the contribution boxes. Another Jehovah's Witness then gave the financial report for the assembly. For the Kingdom Hall fund last year they'd set aside $100, and also $200 for the 'worldwide work', leaving them with a $1,087.66 deficit and an account balance of $3,588.70. This time around, they were donating $1000 to the worldwide work and $300 to the Kingdom Hall fund, and the leftover from the account would be $2,288.70. Their expenses for the assembly were projected at $15,834.93, and the contributions collected up to that time were only $9,849.35, so it was pretty clear that they'd need more. After this came the "<em>Watchtower</em> Summary", an annoying feature (delivered this time by one Br. Fritz) in which they basically just go through and summarize an article from <em>The Watchtower</em>, but somehow in a way that takes much longer than just reading the article word-for-word and also refrains from adding anything of substance that wasn't already there. Apart from mentioning that the article in question this time was "Displaying Good Manners as Ministers of God", from pp. 24-29 of the 15 November 2009 issue of <em>The Watchtower</em>, I'll refrain from comment. I scribbled a couple notes, but none of it is exceptionally interesting.<br /><br />Nahath, the circuit overseer as you'll recall, then delivered a talk called "Giving Attention to the Needs of the Circuit", in which he began with the question, "What is paramount in your life?" Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ecclesiastes+3%3A1">Ecclesiastes 3:1</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">For everything there is an appointed time, even a time for every affair under the heavens</span>") and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Philippians+1%3A9-10">Philippians 1:9-10</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And this is what I continue praying, that YOUR love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment; that YOU may make sure of the more important things, so that YOU may be flawless and not be stumbling others up to the day of Christ</span>"), he pointed to the need for discernment, and then he went to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+40%3A8">Psalm 40:8</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">To do your will, O my God, I have delighted, and your law is within my inward parts</span>"), calling it a prophecy "applied to Christ Jesus", showing that for Christ, the will of God was paramount, and so it ought be for us. From early days and onward, Nahath said, there had been an increasing stress on a "personal share in witnessing". The 15 August 1922 issue of <em>The Watchtower</em> urges Jehovah's Witnesses (well, then they were the Bible Students) to participate in house-to-house witnessing; many, he said, initially felt that this was beneath their dignity, and so they gradually withdrew from Jehovah's organization. Then, in the 1950s, over 40% of Jehovah's Witnesses were still irregular in this, and so Nathan H. Knorr launched a training program, which increased the number of publishers by 100% and the number of Bible studies by 150%. Today, there are 7.3 million Kingdom publishers. In just the last year, this circuit alone had seen an average increase of 8.3 hours / month to 9.0 hours / month of service, and there were about 149 regular pioneers. The last year had similarly seen an increase from 717 Bible studies to 797 Bible studies, of which I suppose I'd be one. These are good trends for the circuit, Nahath said, but then he asked, "Why is the house-to-house work of vital importance?" The answer he offered was that "lives are at stake"; citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Malachi+1%3A11">Malachi 1:11</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">'For from the sun's rising even to its setting my name will be great among the nations, and in every place sacrificial smoke will be made, a presentation will be made to my name, even a clean gift; because my name will be great among the nations,' Jehovah of armies has said</span>"), he said that most important of all tasks is praising God's name. Of the 2,115 publishers in the entire circuit, 215 are irregular, and these he urged to become regular like the other 1,900. Missing a month of service, after all, is the first step to inactivity. Phone witnessing is a useful tool, especially for those who have difficulty going house-to-house; but he gave the story of a chronically ill JW woman who would go with other JWs in a van, and she'd do a house and then retreat to the van and let the others handle a few while she'd recover energy to tackle another.<br /><br />Nahath cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Colossians+4%3A17">Colossians 4:17</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Also, tell Archippus: 'Keep watching the ministry which you accepted in [the] Lord, that you fulfill it'</span>"), saying that "if you're a dedicated Christian, then you too have accepted a ministry. But, he then gave some warnings, such as that associating with a disfellowshipped relative means that one puts family higher than God's will, and that accepting a job that would conflict with the extensive JW meeting times would be putting that job above God's will. Instead, Nahath praised those who quit their full-time jobs in order to pioneer. There came then an address to the "excellent young brothers" with "fine potential" in the circuit. Urging them not to put themselves or their family first, he cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Timothy+3%3A1">1 Timothy 3:1</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">That statement is faithful. If any man is reaching out for an office of overseer, he is desirous of a fine work</span>"), calling such positions a "good thing to strive for". A Jehovah's Witness can be recommended as a potential ministerial servant in his late teens at the earliest, after he's been baptized a year; once in his late twenties, a ministerial servant can be recommended as a potential elder. Turning to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Timothy+4%3A12-13">1 Timothy 4:12-13</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Let no man ever look down on your youth. On the contrary, become an example to the faithful ones in speaking, in conduct, in love, in faith, in chasteness. While I am coming, continue applying yourself to public reading, to exhortation, to teaching</span>"), Nahath told them, "You young brothers, Jehovah's organization has confidence in <em>you</em>", and that they shouldn't just let their older brothers have the lead forever. The next Scripture reference was <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+13%3A11">1 Corinthians 13:11</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">When I was a babe, I used to speak as a babe, to think as a babe, to reason as a babe; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the [traits] of a babe</span>"), and Nahath listed several kinds of childish behavior: unreliability, missing meetings, and vacationing during assemblies. He also referenced the 15 January 2010 issue of <em>The Watchtower</em> to reinforce the importance of not missing special visits or assemblies. As further advice, he counseled the young men to "dress like a minister when engaging in theocratic activities", which entails dress slacks, a tie, and perhaps a suit, and to pioneer right out of high school before even considering dating, which is risky for teens.<br /><br />In <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+21%3A17">John 21:17</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">He said to him for the third time: 'Simon son of John, do you have affection for me?' Peter became grieved that he said to him the third time: 'Do you have affection for me?' So he said to him: 'Lord, you know all things; you are aware that I have affection for you.' Jesus said to him: 'Feed my little sheep'</span>"), Nahath found the point that "affection for Jesus, love for him, moves us to reach out". To the ladies, he said, "You wives, you can help your husbands" in several ways, such as praying, being exemplary wives, not putting extra demands on him, and making him look good. He also counseled everyone to pray for the young men in the congregation, and hearkening this time to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Proverbs+20%3A29">Proverbs 20:29</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">The beauty of young men is their power, and the splendor of old men is their gray-headedness</span>"), he again said that "Jehovah's organization, brothers, has confidence in you". This circuit, he claimed, is good with "responsiveness to counsel". "Momentous events are just ahead of us," he added. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Joshua+6%3A2-5">Joshua 6:2-5</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And Jehovah went on to say to Joshua: 'See, I have given Jericho and its king, the valiant mighty men, into your hand. And all YOU men of war must march round the city, going round the city once. That is the way you should do for six days. And seven priests should carry seven rams' horns, before the Ark, and on the seventh day YOU should march round the city seven times and the priests should blow the horns. And it must occur that when they sound with the horn of the ram, when YOU hear the sound of the horn, all the people should sound a great war cry; and the wall of the city must fall down flat, and the people must go up, each one straight before him'</span>") shows that it's "possible that there will be a similar expansion of our preaching activity ahead of us", and - in a familiar eisegetical move - <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+16%3A21">Revelation 16:21</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And a great hail with every stone about the weight of a talent descended out of heaven upon the men, and the men blasphemed God due to the plague of the hail, because the plague of it was unusually great</span>") is seen as depicting the JW message as hail. Before the tribulation has run its course, he announced, "people will know that this is Jehovah taking action". Finally, his parting wisdom for the audience: put "Jehovah's will first", and only then "family, job, recreation, etc." Furthermore, "keep watching the ministry, particularly the house-to-house ministry, that we fulfill it." At that, the 1,162 people in attendance this morning rose to sing song #3, "God is Love", based on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+John+4%3A7-8">1 John 4:7-8</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Beloved ones, let us continue loving one another, because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born from God and gains the knowledge of God. He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love</span>").<br /><br />I had a great lunch with a few of my friends. Ham, as usual, was being very... energetic. And when he gets energetic, he's exceptionally entertaining (think ADHD plus crack...), though his wife has some trouble appreciating it. I, however, was at least chuckling through the entire meal. I spent the rest of the lunch break either reading or having conversations. Unfortunately, things did indeed resume at 1:30 PM, this time with song #48, "Daily Walking with Jehovah", based on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Micah+6%3A8">Micah 6:8</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">He has told you, O earthling man, what is good. And what is Jehovah asking back from you but to exercise justice and to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God?</span>"), and then a prayer.<br /><br />Ezbon delivered the assembly's "public address", this one being titled "Maintaining Spiritual Health in a Sick World". He started out by announcing that, with illness everywhere, "the world is ailing from head to toe", that "violence is everywhere, filling up jails", and that "this sick world is terminally near its end". After referencing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Isaiah+1%3A4-6">Isaiah 1:4-6</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Woe to the sinful nation, the people heavy with error, an evildoing seed, ruinous sons! They have left Jehovah, they have treated the Holy One of Israel with disrespect, they have turned backwards. Where else will YOU be struck still more, in that YOU add more revolt? The whole head is in a sick condition, and the whole heart is feeble. From the sole of the foot even to the head there is no sound spot in it. Wounds and bruises and fresh stripes--they have not been squeezed out or bound up, nor has there been a softening with oil</span>") and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Isaiah+1%3A16-17">vv. 16-17</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the badness of YOUR dealings from in front of my eyes; cease to do bad. Learn to do good; search for justice; set right the oppressor; render judgment for the fatherless boy; plead the cause of the widow</span>"), he said that there are plenty of sincere people out there who want to do good, but simply don't know how to live rightly until Jehovah's Witnesses bring them the truth. Jehovah's Witnesses are to resist the spirit of the world described in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ephesians+2%3A2">Ephesians 2:2</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">In which YOU at one time walked according to the system of things of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience</span>"), where the air is the "dominant inclination of disobedience"; this dark spirit is weaker than God's spirit, but the former is more prevalent in this system of things. Poisons in the physical air can be detected by empirical means, but only those with God's spirit can detect spiritual poison in the spiritual air.<br /><br />Ezbon urged Jehovah's Witnesses to avoid "inappropriate associations", "objectionable books", and pornography. Commenting on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=2+Timothy+2%3A16-18">2 Timothy 2:16-18</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">But shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. These very [men] have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some</span>"), he said that the "they" of the passage are "opposers, apostates, all of them". This sort of 'spiritual gangrene' must, he urged, be amputated. Regarding Hymenaeus and Philetus, Ezbon claimed that "it's unlikely that they were teaching that the resurrection had literally occurred", but instead were probably under the influence of Epicurean philosophy, and hence said that Christians had been metaphorically "resurrected to the highest quality of life" and hence should "enjoy" it. Returning to his earlier line of thought, he added that Jehovah's Witnesses should "amputate immediately" any "complaints" or "negative thoughts" that they might have.<br /><br />He then remarked, "Don't let your Bible student think that we're a perfect people", because Jehovah's Witnesses are merely "Jehovah's people". People shouldn't wait to see the "clouds of Armageddon", because then "it's too late"--"the greatest conflagration in all history is coming"! Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+15%3A13">Romans 15:13</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">May the God who gives hope fill YOU with all joy and peace by YOUR believing, that YOU may abound in hope with power of holy spirit</span>"), he said that we need "preventive medicine to make sure that we're standing firm and tall". Physically, we can "eat healthy, balanced meals", "get some exercise", and "get regular check-ups". He then said that "you and I need spiritual food more than they need physical food". On this note, people should read whether they like it or not, and he mentioned <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Timothy+4%3A6">1 Timothy 4:6</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">By giving these advices to the brothers you will be a fine minister of Christ Jesus, one nourished with the words of the faith and of the fine teaching which you have followed closely</span>"). This is "not a matter of just getting knowledge", and he brought up the example of a brilliant Jesuit priest who memorized massive sections of the Bible but yet--oh alas!--"he stayed in Babylon the Great", and so his intelligence availed him nothing. Asking "Have we progressed spiritually?", he cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Hebrews+5%3A12">Hebrews 5:12</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">For, indeed, although YOU ought to be teachers in view of the time, YOU again need someone to teach YOU from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God; and YOU have become such as need milk, not solid food</span>") and said that "spiritual food helps us repair damage", "gives us strength", and "helps us to resist infection". Unfortunately, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Proverbs+26%3A15">Proverbs 26:15</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">The lazy one has hidden his hand in the banquet bowl; he has become too weary to bring it back to his own mouth</span>") shows how some can be right next to Jehovah's table and yet starve by refusing to partake. Fortunately for Jehovah's Witnesses, though - at least according to Ezbon - the "faithful steward" that stands in the "place of Christ" is the "greatest dietician ever" and gives the "earthly class" of Jehovah's Witnesses truly "organic food" at "just the right time".<br /><br /><a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Hebrews+6%3A1">Hebrews 6:1</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">For this reason, now that we have left the primary doctrine about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying a foundation again, namely, repentance from dead works, and faith toward God</span>"), the next verse he discussed, gives "the primary foundation", several "elementary things", and Ezbon asked whether "you and I know" these basics, like "how many baptisms there are". By probing deeply, he assured the audience, "you'll get into the sacred secrets of God that are in the publications". The Theocratic Ministry School book says, as he quoted it, that the "quality and regularity of our reading habits" is important--"reading can lead to enjoyable study, research". Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Jeremiah+33%3A3">Jeremiah 33:3</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Call to me, and I shall answer you and readily tell you great and incomprehensible things that you have not known</span>"), Ezbon declared that "Jehovah through the slave class" has revealed many things to Jehovah's Witnesses, and urged them to keep up "regular attendance at all meetings, all ten meetings". Turning to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Hebrews+10%3A24-25">Hebrews 10:24-25</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near</span>"), he described it as the "standard by which all Christians are determined" and asked rhetorically, "Of all five weekly meetings, which is the most important one?" The answer? "The next one!" Finally, he prohibited Jehovah's Witnesses from even nibbling at the "table of demons", and said that subtracting "meetings, personal study, and field service" from spiritual life results in Wonderbread spirituality--there's just "not much left".<br /><br />Going next to the image of regular exercise, Ezbon first said that a "sedentary lifestyle leads to physical ailment". Noting first of <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+3%3A16">John 3:16</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life</span>") that "people in Christendom" can often recite it well by heart, he said that the wonderful equation there is that "exercising faith equals everlasting life", but this is something involving effort, "not just having faith, professing faith". Commenting then on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Timothy+4%3A8">1 Timothy 4:8</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">For bodily training is beneficial for a little; but godly devotion is beneficial for all things, as it holds promise of the life now and that which is to come</span>"), he said that "the best way to hold onto the truth is to give it to others".<br /><br />Finally turning to the image of regular check-ups, he cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=2+Corinthians+13%3A5">2 Corinthians 13:5</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are. Or do YOU not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with YOU? Unless YOU are disapproved</span>") and said that "if we don't take a good treatment, we could have a spiritual breakdown". In this context, he made yet another reference to the familiar situation of a family member getting disfellowshipped, and then he cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+50%3A15">Psalm 50:15</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And call me in the day of distress. I shall rescue you, and you will glorify me</span>"), <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+11%3A13">Luke 11:13</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Therefore, if YOU, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to YOUR children, how much more so will the Father in heaven give holy spirit to those asking him!</span>"), and an unspecified verse in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=James+5">James 5</a>. What sort of treatment did he have in mind? Jehovah's Witnesses were advised to pray, search the Scriptures, do research (in Watchtower publications, of course; other research <em>ist verboten!!!!</em>), and seek help from the elders, who are "spiritual men" provided by Jehovah--"and we trust that arrangement, do we not?" Even the present circuit assembly was deemed such a check-up. We are to be "looking in the publications and God's Word for answers", and Jesus shows the real cure for all our ills in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+17%3A3">John 17:3</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ</span>"), which shows that the "knowledge of God's Word, applied properly, can gain everlasting life". Mentioning <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+5%3A3">Matthew 5:3</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them</span>") again, he noted that the Kingdom Interlinear renders the key phrase as "beggars for the spirit", and urged us to fulfill that role. The talk ended on the customary note that "Satan's system will be gone" very soon. All 1,143 in attendance this afternoon then rose for song #27, "Take Sides with Jehovah!", based on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Exodus+32%3A26">Exodus 32:26</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Then Moses took his stand in the gate of the camp and said: 'Who is on Jehovah's side? To me!' And all the sons of Levi began gathering themselves to him</span>"), which was followed by still more announcements.<br /><br />After those announcements, Nahath stepped to the podium for the next talk, titled "More Than All Else, Safeguard Your Heart". He started off with the story of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Grinkov">Sergei Grinkov</a>, a young world-class athlete who died suddenly of a heart attack. Examiners found the telltale signs of heart trouble that could only be seen "beneath the surface". Advising the audience first to not let "personal concerns [...] weigh down our heart", he then cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Proverbs+4%3A23">Proverbs 4:23</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">More than all else that is to be guarded, safeguard your heart, for out of it are the sources of life</span>") in support of his plea to "safeguard our figurative heart", which is the "sum total of the interior man". This heart is far more precious than the totality of everything else we own, and so we ought not to "expose it to even momentary danger". He went through a few more passages next, commenting on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+3%3A4">1 Peter 3:4</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">But let it be the secret person of the heart in the incorruptible [apparel] of the quiet and mild spirit, which is of great value in the eyes of God</span>") that the heart "is what Jehovah God sees, and that is what Jehovah examines" and on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Proverbs+17%3A3">Proverbs 17:3</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">The refining pot is for silver and the furnace for gold, but Jehovah is the examiner of hearts</span>") that, again, "Jehovah is an examiner of hearts". The next verse mentioned was <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Chronicles+28%3A9">1 Chronicles 28:9</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a complete heart and with a delightful soul; for all hearts Jehovah is searching, and every inclination of the thoughts he is discerning. If you search for him, he will let himself be found by you; but if you leave him, he will cast you off forever</span>"), and Nahath said that "Jehovah sets a high standard for those who make it into his new world".<br /><br />His next point was to distinguish three abnormal heart conditions: (1) that of a half-heart (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+119%3A113">Psalm 119:113</a> - "<span style="color:#009900;">The halfhearted ones I have hated, but your law I have loved</span>"); (2) that of a double-heart (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+12%3A2">Psalm 12:2</a> - "<span style="color:#009900;">Untruth they keep speaking one to the other; with a smooth lip they keep speaking even with a double heart</span>"); and (3) that of no heart at all (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Proverbs+17%3A16">Proverbs 17:16</a> - "<span style="color:#009900;">Why is it that there is in the hand of a stupid one the price to acquire wisdom, when he has no heart?</span>"). "Only a complete heart will please Jehovah", and so we wouldn't want God to see any of these three abnormalities in us. We can, fortunately, cultivate purity of heart through Daily Bible reading. Nahath listed four ways to safeguard a physical heart, each of which he proceeded to find applicable to spiritual situations: (1) good diet; (2) lack of overconfidence; (3) regular check-ups; and (4) exercise.<br /><br />Delving into the first way to "safeguard our figurative heart", Nahath advised us to "control our thinking", in the sense of resisting corrupt thoughts. "Watch out for spiritual junk food, video Doritos", he cautioned; citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ephesians+5%3A3">Ephesians 5:3</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Let fornication and uncleanness of every sort or greediness not even be mentioned among YOU, just as it befits holy people</span>"), he told Jehovah's Witnesses to "avoid entertainment that features these things", because "negative thinking is very hard on our heart". We need to focus on positive thoughts, even when demons seek to frustrate us with negativity about our "family upbringing" or having been "victims of ethnic hatred", because "wrong thinking" can lead to a "spiritual heart attack".<br /><br />Second was the point about "avoid[ing] overconfidence". Nahath asserted that "some in the congregation may feel that, because they've been in the truth for a while, nothing can happen to them", and said that this could be especially dangerous for younger JWs who've been raised in the faith. After a reference to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Proverbs+16%3A18">Proverbs 16:18</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Pride is before a crash, and a haughty spirit before stumbling</span>"), he said that some young believers with great promise, by "feeding on the poison of Satan's table", fall victim to "spiritual heart attacks" instead. Apart from cautioning against "courting unbelievers", he also advised not to pursue "unwholesome curiosity on the Internet", things such as pornography or contact with "those with whom we have no right to pursue a romantic interest". Addressing parents, he said that "family Bible study is such an essential defense", but that parents must also closely monitor their children's choices in friends and entertainment. After mentioning "congenital spiritual heart defects" and citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Proverbs+4%3A23">Proverbs 4:23</a> again, he said that when young people don't know how to live rightly, their parents should intervene, and that we may have to perform the "open heart surgery" of cutting out entertainment altogether, if necessity to prevent our families from being contaminated by the world.<br /><br />The third tip Nahath offered was to "get it [i.e., the 'figurative heart'] examined from time to time". "We need to do the examination ourselves", he said, and then contrasted two biblical stories: David and Bathsheba on the one hand, and Joseph and the wife of Potiphar on the other. Like the latter story, Jehovah's Witnesses were directed to flee from "immoral temptation" because "sexual chemistry can be triggered when it's least expected". Similar cautions apply to "secular work" and "bad associations". Materialism is also a problem, and Nahath said that many Jehovah's Witnesses deceive themselves when they fail to apply the counsel of <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Timothy+6%3A9">1 Timothy 6:9</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">However, those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and hurtful desires, which plunge men into destruction and ruin</span>") to themselves. Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=James+1%3A22">James 1:22</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">However, become doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning</span>"), Nahath urged the audience not to deceive themselves and instead to "avoid association" with anoyone, "inside or outside the congregation" who could be "a corrupting influence", and especially to avoid "association with disfellowshipped family members" or even those who have simply "drifted away". On this latter note, he drew a distinction between "drawing away" (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Hebrews+3%3A12">Hebrews 3:12</a> - "<span style="color:#009900;">Beware, brothers, for fear there should ever develop in any one of YOU a wicked heart lacking faith by drawing away from the living God</span>") and "drifting away" (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Hebrews+2%3A1">Hebrews 2:1</a> - "<span style="color:#009900;">That is why it is necessary for us to pay more than the usual attention to the things heard by us, that we may never drift away</span>"). A "passive ignoring of counsel", he warned, can lead to a "wicked heart lacking faith".<br /><br />Finally turning to the fourth point, that of "regular exercise", he advised us to "keep in good shape spiritually" through theocratic provisions like meeting attendance, field service, prayer, and good association, and recounted a story from the October 2009 issue of <em>Awake!</em> about a Jehovah's Witness woman with ALS who, despite having a weak "physical heart", nonetheless has an admirably "strong spiritual heart". Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Timothy+4%3A8">1 Timothy 4:8</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">For bodily training is beneficial for a little; but godly devotion is beneficial for all things, as it holds promise of the life now and that which is to come</span>"), Nahath spoke of the "promise of a life now as well as the life to come". This was followed by a recapitulation of what's really important--namely, "meetings, service, prayer, and good association"--and a directive to lay a solid foundation for the life to come.<br /><br />Then, after another superfluous reference to the "faithful and discreet slave", it was time for Ezbon to deliver the final talk of the circuit assembly, "Reap Rich Blessings by Safeguarding Your Spirituality". First showing off an 1892 "five-dollar gold coin" in mint condition, he noted that it's probably worth vastly more than just five dollars now. The Bible, however, which is "the only book that tells us how to know Jehovah", is priceless, and in particular the New World Translation, which (according to Ezbon) is "not only modern, but accurate". Exhorting the audience to "come to appreciate and love Jehovah and his universal organization", he cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+4%3A23-24">John 4:23-24</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth</span>") to the effect that "Jehovah can be reached" and in fact seeks those with a contrite heart.<br /><br />Talking a bit about spirituality, Ezbon said that it both "allows us to have a relationship with Jehovah" and "allows us to develop spiritual maturity", which depends on our response to the working of God's spirit. We must "train like a gymnast" (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Hebrews+5%3A14">Hebrews 5:14</a> - "<span style="color:#009900;">But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong</span>"), just as any baby must work to develop coordination. Any person is affected by either "God's spirit" or else "the spirit of the world". Jehovah's Witnesses must develop a particular attitude, so that it's "not a matter of 'I have to go to meetings or out in service', or even 'I'm supposed to', but 'I <em>love</em> to'". Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+119%3A97">Psalm 119:97</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">How I do love your law! All day long it is my concern</span>") and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+119%3A105">119:105</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Your word is a lamp to my foot, and a light to my roadway</span>"), which he ascribed to "young Hezekiah before he became a king", Ezbon asked us, regarding various issues such as dating, marriage, and association, "Do we look it up in the publications and see what the Bible says?" (How about looking it up in the Bible to see what the Bible says?) Ezbon declared that "spirituality protects us from wrongdoing", offering the example of Job. Ezbon also suggested, not only that "Elihu brought comfort to Job" (I don't know that Elihu's speech is especially comforting...), but also that the devil may have prompted Eliphaz. Spirituality also "protect[s us] from this dying world", helps us grow, and teaches us to value "Christ Jesus directing the slave class". Describing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+16%3A4-5">Acts 16:4-5</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Now as they traveled on through the cities they would deliver to those there for observance the decrees that had been decided upon by the apostles and older men who were in Jerusalem. Therefore, indeed, the congregations continued to be made firm in the faith and to increase in number from day to day</span>") as a letter from "the Governing Body", he summarized the lesson of Acts as being that "congregations that follow God's spirit", by following the slave class, will therefore grow in both strength and number.<br /><br />At this point, Ezbon went into some interesting JW history stuff, kind of like happened near the end of the district convention. Saying that the "slave class protected us with neutrality with respect to World War I", he pointed to the 1932 <em>Watchtower</em> article "Neutrality", which he said was the first to "show the sanctity of blood". Rewinding a bit to 1904, he said that the first chapter of <em>Studies in the Scriptures</em>, Vol. VI, not only "refuted Darwinism" but even "refuted evolution completely", and that "nobody had done that" until the slave class showed the world the truth. (Uhh... I'd just like to point out that even if I were still a creationist, I'd likely regard the anti-evolution arguments of JW literature as being especially weak, and definitely not anything innovative or impressive.) In 1950, they produced a booklet called <em>Evolution versus the New World</em>, and 1967 and the following years saw later publications on the topic. (I fail to see the particular relevance of this to the talk...) Commenting on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Daniel+12">Daniel 12</a>, Ezbon said that "those of the anointed would shine bright", and on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Jude+17-21">Jude 17-21</a> that in "praying with holy spirit", we are "protected from the most wicked world that Satan has ever produced". (How many worlds has Satan produced?)<br /><br />Finally, Ezbon launched into a general recap of some of the material from the assembly. Noting that Jehovah's Witnesses must keep a "simple eye", Ezbon said that the real opposite of "simple" isn't "complex" but rather "wicked" (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+6%3A22-23">Matthew 6:22-23</a> - "<span style="color:#009900;">The lamp of the body is the eye. If, then, your eye is simple, your whole body will be bright; but if your eye is wicked, your whole body will be dark. If in reality the light that is in you is darkness, how great that darkness is!</span>"). He then made reference to the 1 September 2000 issue of <em>The Watchtower</em>, the 2006 special assembly with the theme "Keep Your Eye Simple", and page 181 of the book <em>Keep Yourselves in God's Love</em>, which exhorts the reader to "avoid burdening yourself". Ezbon asked the audience, "Even if you can afford something, can you afford the time to use it?" A simple life is better. He referred to this system's "four-step cycle": advertising, commercialism, consumerism, and overconsumption. Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Hebrews+13%3A5">Hebrews 13:5</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Let [YOUR] manner of life be free of the love of money, while YOU are content with the present things. For he has said: 'I will by no means leave you nor by any means forsake you'</span>"), he asked whether we've learned yet to put "theocratic responsibilities" first, and advised the audience to "stay home for a weekend or two" in order to catch up on chores and making return visits in the door-to-door ministry.<br /><br />Next came a tirade about higher education, which he said was "another area that confuses some of Jehovah's people". In the 1 November 1992 issue of <em>The Watchtower</em>, the Society never recommended higher education, but said that sometimes supplemental education could be useful. Ezbon said that we can attain <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Timothy+6%3A8">1 Timothy 6:8</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">So, having sustenance and covering, we shall be content with these things</span>") without higher education. Talking of those young Jehovah's Witnesses who do make the mistake of going off to college, Ezbon said that there's an inevitable spiritual change; besides, Ezbon said, it doesn't make a huge difference, because forty to sixty percent of college graduates are unemployed anyway, and there are plenty of stories of people (esp. Jehovah's Witnesses) without college education rising above those with degrees in the workplace. (He told two such stories.) Rather than attend college, then, Ezbon urged young Jehovah's Witnesses to replace it with technical school and pioneering. Higher education is unnecessary, he concluded, and "Satan's system runs the world".<br /><br />Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Proverbs+24%3A12">Proverbs 24:12</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">In case you should say: 'Look! We did not know of this,' will not he himself that is making an estimate of hearts discern it, and he himself that is observing your soul know and certainly pay back to earthling man according to his activity?</span>"), Ezbon affirmed that the "slave class is responsible to caution us, and they certainly have", to not "let anything distract us from the view that's right ahead of us". Over the past year, they've experienced a 4% increase in Bible studies and a "reawakening" of a number of inactive people. Speaking of a "growing field service", Ezbon suggested that Jehovah's Witnesses mention the <a href="http://www.watchtower.org/">Watchtower website</a> to people. The reason is the problem of people "wanting to know about us, but not from us initially", and so to prevent that, Jehovah's Witnesses need to be the first to tell their story. He shared the brief narrative of a new student (that is, someone who recently started a JW Bible study) coming to a meeting, raising his hand, and declaring of the study book, "This book has the truth! There are many more like me out there; don't give up." Ezbon advised Jehovah's Witnesses to give out tracts when they can; "you do have the cure to cancer, and you do know the cure to AIDS and heart disease and death", so Jehovah's Witnesses should share it. "Why set limits on what your spirituality can do?" If a Jehovah's Witness doesn't have somebody to study with them, they were urged to get out there in the field and find one.<br /><br />At last, Ezbon reminded the audience that he was getting a new assignment to be a district overseer elsewhere, and so he gave a brief farewell speech, and also noted that there'd be an upcoming change in the caretakers for the assembly hall. Finally, the assembly proper concluded with song #34, "Living Up to Our Name", based on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Isaiah+43%3A10-12">Isaiah 43:10-12</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">'YOU are my witnesses,' is the utterance of Jehovah, 'even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none. I--I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior'</span>"). After everything wrapped up, it was time to play the waiting game again for a bit, I chatted with some of the other Jehovah's Witnesses. Two guys talked to me about higher education, sort of trying to make the Watchtower's anti-education stance seem more palatable by noting how many colleges are full of immorality these days. One of them also said how wonderful it is that 7.3 million Jehovah's Witnesses all receive the same talks and the same articles; I, on the other hand, find that a bit disturbing. I eventually spent some time talking to an attractive younger JW woman who was manning the contribution box by the exit; it was a nice conversation, but not exactly deep or anything. And finally, before I left, I chatted with a JW couple. The husband talked about how religion can be a force for good or a force for evil, while the wife shared some Bible study stories and urged me to have patience in the areas in which I'm unconvinced so far, because it's sure to become clear later. She told the story of one person she studied with who had a hard time accepting the JW ban on blood transfusions, but after they discussed the ransom sacrifice of Christ, the guy said it finally made sense.<br /><br />Anyway, not terribly long after that, the last personnel were ready to leave the building, and so my party - myself, Uriah, Atarah, Shem, and Zibiah - made our way to the minivan and piled in. On the way back to college, I just barely managed to finish reading <em>Let God Be True</em>. And so ended a somewhat grueling weekend at a Jehovah's Witness circuit assembly.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-74160363336795932272010-01-30T21:54:00.024-05:002010-02-12T19:06:14.057-05:002010 Circuit Assembly - Day OneSo I finally had a chance to attend a circuit assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses (the circuit in question is Pennsylvania Circuit 5; the convention was only 5B, since the assembly hall can't handle the entire circuit at once - 5A had their assembly the previous weekend). Having packed my things the night before, I'd hoped to wake up at, say, 6:00 or 6:20 AM. Well, as it turns out, I slept in a bit, and so I rushed around in a frenzy getting ready and then raced out the door and through the wintery cold to the college's chapel, where I sought refuge in the warmth. After maybe ten or fifteen minutes, a minivan pulled up out front containing Shem (driving), Uriah, and Atarah and Zibiah. I got in, and we were off on the fifteen-minute journey to the assembly hall.<br /><br />When we arrived, it turned out that only essential personnel were allowed in the building before 8:00 AM, and so Zibiah and I had to return to the minivan to wait; Uriah, Shem, and Atarah would all be working in the coatroom the entire time. Uriah later explained that the rationale is to make sure that nobody gets a totally unfair advantage in saving seats, though in weather like today's, I'm not sure that saving seats is the worse of two evils. I spent the time reading, naturally - I'm working through <em>Let God Be True</em>, a JW study book originally published in 1946 but revised in 1952, which edition I have - until we were at last allowed in. Zibiah and I took over a section of seating to the far left of the auditorium-type room, and needless to say I spent some time milling around for a bit before returning to some reading. I had a full 100 minutes before the assembly activities would actually begin.<br /><br />During that time, I first got to meet a few people while Uriah was at our seating area. (This would happen a fair bit, since I was the only male there without a suit, or at least a button-down shirt and possibly a tie; the best clothes I had for the weekend still had me a tad underdressed.) First were "Ze'ev" and his wife. His wife didn't stay long, but Ze'ev, Uriah, and I had some interesting conversations. Ze'ev is a pioneer, meaning that he devotes 70 hours each week to 'publishing' (essentially, JW evangelism), as well as a Theocratic Ministry School overseer, so I got to hear a bit about what being a TMS overseer involves. Essentially, Theocratic Ministry School, which is a training program for Jehovah's Witnesses to give talks and whatnot, involves about six of them each week delivering talks that they've been assigned, and then the overseer has to give comments and counsel on each. But, in case somebody misses, the overseer also has to be prepared to give all six of the talks, if necessary! So, naturally, it requires quite a bit of preparation. Somewhere in here, he also found an opportunity to cite <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Isaiah+54%3A13">Isaiah 54:13</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And all your sons will be persons taught by Jehovah, and the peace of your sons will be abundant</span>"). Ze'ev and Uriah (who had also been a TMS overseer at his own congregation for a time) had both been Jehovah's Witnesses since 1997. They discussed how long it takes their congregations to cover the territory they need to (Ze'ev's does it twice every 14 months, but Uriah's covers our territory once every 13 months, since there are fewer pioneers in the area), and Ze'ev also talked to me for a bit about how much he loves the book <em>Jehovah's Witnesses: Proclaimers of God's Kingdom</em> (the "Proclaimers book", for short), which he's in the process of studying for the first time now, and which I've already read. Uriah told Ze'ev how he read the Proclaimers book when he was still a Methodist in order to try to find things wrong with Jehovah's Witness history.<br /><br />After I met a couple others, Uriah introduced me to an older Jehovah's Witness near the back of the auditorium. As it turns out, this fellow, 'Beriah', was the JW who had done the Bible study with Uriah before Uriah's conversion. That was an interesting meeting; Beriah was quite a nice, friendly fellow. I met a couple other people while Uriah took me on a tour of the assembly hall, after which I returned to my seat for more reading time. After some of that, I got to meet a couple of JWs closer to my age, including a 25-year-old guy I'll call 'Almog'. Almog asked me the standard set of questions. First, it's always what I do, and I answer that I'm a college student. Sometimes, they then ask where, so I answer, and invariably I'll be asked what I study there. When I say that I'm a student of religion and philosophy, they'll always say that it sounds fascinating, and then they'll usually ask me something like how I find it compares with what I learn from Jehovah's Witnesses, etc., etc. Anyway, Almog asked what truth I'd come away with so far in my Bible study with Uriah. The question sort of caught me by surprise and froze my brain for a moment, particularly since I wanted to give an answer that would be both true and inoffensive, so I said something to the effect of, "That there's one true God, Jehovah, and that salvation comes only through the sacrifice of Christ." This answer met with approval.<br /><br />Eventually, it finally came time for things to get started, and I learned that the theme of this weekend's circuit assembly would be "Safeguard Your Spirituality". The songs would all be from the new songbook announced last year at the district convention, called <em>Songs to Jehovah</em>. Needless to say, I didn't have one, but a woman two rows back let me borrow a copy for the day. The first song was #53, "Working Together in Unity", based on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ephesians+4%3A3">Ephesians 4:3</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Earnestly endeavoring to observe the oneness of spirit in the uniting bond of peace</span>"), and was followed by a prayer.<br /><br />The first talk, "Why Our Spirituality is Precious", was delivered by 'Ezbon', the district overseer, who was being reassigned following this assembly; they have periodic reassignment every three years, I believe. Ezbon started off by painting a mental image of walking a dog on a leash at the side of a mountain lake while a beautiful sunset is happening. The dog won't jerk back to watch the sunset, because the animal world isn't impressed by creation; animals can't appreciate the beauty of God's handiwork like we can. This capacity for spirituality is the key distinction between us and mere animals, although some humans dismiss spiritual things (and thereby, the implication seemed to go, diminish the distinction between themselves and animals). After citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+5%3A3">Matthew 5:3</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them</span>"), he commented that "happiness is contingent on being a spiritual person", and after quoting from the definition of "spiritual" he found in Webster's Dictionary, he talked about some ideas of spirituality found in other religions. For Protestants, he said, spirituality can be found in attending church, religious rallies and revivals, sometimes being "born again", and for some, speaking in tongues. For Catholics, the mass is spiritual. For Buddhists, meditation is spiritual, and for Hindus, "release from rebirth through self-denial" is spiritual. He then brought up the old practice of some (King Louis IX of France, Thomas More, and Thomas Becket were the ones he mentioned) who wore 'hair-shirts' in order to "subdue the unruly flesh".<br /><br />After explaining that spiritism/spiritualism is not spirituality, he cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+2%3A13">1 Corinthians 2:13</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by [the] spirit, as we combine spiritual [matters] with spiritual [words]</span>"), saying that these are spiritual matters for the spiritual man. On the <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+2%3A14">next verse</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], for they are examined spiritually</span>"), he commented that the "physical man is a poor judge; he only looks at spiritual things". Ezbon then cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+2%3A15-16">verses 15-16</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">However, the spiritual man examines indeed all things, but he himself is not examined by any man. For 'who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, that he may instruct him?' But we do have the mind of Christ</span>"), as well as <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+15%3A5">Romans 15:5</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Now may the God who supplies endurance and comfort grant YOU to have among yourselves the same mental attitude that Christ Jesus had</span>"), before remarking that a spiritual person thinks and walks like Jesus. After posing the query of how to do so, he offered four points. The first was to read the Gospels, which would allow us to get to know Jesus' way of thinking; and "when we have his thinking or the mind of Christ", this will allow us to conform ourselves to his image. The second point was to be guided by God's spirit, which is the transforming power that will put us in a state of "resembling Christ Jesus". The third point was that "true spirituality and prayer go hand-in-hand", and Ezbon cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+26%3A36-44">Matthew 26:36-44</a> (the disciples failing to stay awake in Gethsemane) and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+22%3A44">Luke 22:44</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">But getting into an agony he continued praying more earnestly; and his sweat became as drops of blood falling to the ground</span>"). The fourth point was to have a "meaningful share in the preaching work". Ezbon made the point that healing is less important than preaching the Father's name. Summarizing, he said that we should read the Bible daily, have the fruit of the spirit, be men and women of prayer, and associate with those who preach God's word.<br /><br />Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+8%3A5">Romans 8:5</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those in accord with the spirit on the things of the spirit</span>"), one of the key passages for the convention, he asked why there's so much emphasis on spirituality, and to answer that he turned to the other key passage, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Jude+17-19">Jude 17-19</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">As for YOU, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings that have been previously spoken by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, how they used to say to YOU: 'In the last time there will be ridiculers, proceeding according to their own desires for ungodly things.' These are the ones that make separations, animalistic [men], not having spirituality</span>") and then <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+8%3A6">Romans 8:6</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">For the minding of the flesh means death, but the minding of the spirit means life and peace</span>"). On the first, he talked about the "perverse, animalistic attitudes" that arise in the absence of true spirituality, and he made the peculiar comment that this can happen even within the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses; the second he glossed with the remark that peace and good conscience are to be found in spirituality. After citing Matthew 5:3 yet again, he spoke of the blessings of having the mind of Christ. He talked about the diversity of Jehovah's people, noting (among other things) that some are highly educated and some are illiterate. (I'm curious how Ezbon understands "highly educated".) He also said that they are fed by Jehovah and his word, since "the slave class provides a delightful menu". Posing a question to the audience, he asked, "Are we at all of the meetings?" He then stressed that there are ten meetings that it is possible to attend, and said that the events in total cover the five regular meetings each week, as well as circuit assemblies, special days, district conventions, service meetings, and the memorial service. Stressing the joy of associating with one another, the tenor of his statement seemed to carry the implication that it's imperative to attend every single meeting possible. Among other blessings, he then mentioned the "forgiveness of sins through the ransom sacrifice" as well as freedom from "Babylon the Great"; at this point, he expressed an eagerness for Babylon the Great (i.e., 'Christendom' as well as Judaism, Islam, Mormonism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.) to be utterly destroyed by God. The final blessing mentioned was that there are "deep" and "clear" JW publications. This roughly marked the end of his talk, though as is customary he gave a preview of the whole program (after explaining why song numbers weren't marked in the program bulletin; the reason, of course, was the new songbook), and finally cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+37%3A28">Psalm 37:28</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">For Jehovah is a lover of justice, and he will not leave his loyal ones. To time indefinite they will certainly be guarded; but as for the offspring of the wicked ones, they will indeed by cut off</span>") to the effect of safeguarding one's spirituality.<br /><br />At this time, the Theocratic Ministry School began. Several Witnesses took their turn in doing... things. The first part was "Bible highlights", covering three chapters from Judges. The Jehovah's Witness delivering it first began with <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+5%3A1">Judges 5:1</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And on that day Deborah along with Barak the son of Abinoam broke out in song, saying</span>"). He explained that this was a victory song of Israel over Canaan. He said that these songs were recorded for our benefit, and that we should take advantage of the opportunity to sing to Jehovah. Since the Governing Body had personally auditioned each new song, the new songbook truly constitutes "spiritual food", a term that appears to confer a quasi-inspired status upon whatever it describes. The next verse he discussed in a bit of depth, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+7%3A17">Judges 7:17</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And he went on to say to them: 'YOU should learn from watching me, and that is how YOU should do. And when I am come to the edge of the camp, it must also occur that just as I shall do, so YOU will do'</span>"), was the example of Gideon teaching an inexperienced army. The speaker made the comparison of these troops to modern-day Jehovah's Witnesses, who have "many new and inexperienced ones within the organization". More experienced Witnesses are to help them prepare an effective message for the territory. When introducing them to door-to-door publishing work, the more experienced JW should take the first few doors to give an example to follow and then let them try, and also never forget to offer positive reinforcement.<br /><br />This is where a section of the audience, drawn from the speaking Witness's own congregation, gave their audience comments on the passage. From the sounds of their voices, they appeared to be reading. On <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+7%3A22">7:22</a>, one person remarked to "trust in Jehovah for success". After somebody referenced <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+6%3A15">6:15</a>, another went to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+5%3A31">5:31</a> for the lesson that this was a prophetic battle pointing forward to Armageddon. Another used <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+5%3A8">5:8</a>, urging everyone to be faithful to God's promise. Next was <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+6%3A12">6:12</a>, with the lesson that Jehovah has confidence in us. The next person cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+7%3A3">7:3</a> and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+7%3A7">7:7</a>; the person discussed the ratios involved in a way that made painfully obvious that this was no extemporaneous comment, and then said that Jehovah delivers his people from their enemies. After that was <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+6%3A25">6:25</a>, wherein we are not asked for "blind faith in some obscure deity", because Jehovah's Witnesses know the God whom they worship. The next person cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+7%3A5">7:5</a> as well as <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+5%3A8">1 Peter 5:8</a>, and the person after that went to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+5%3A20">5:20</a> to discuss help from God. After somebody went to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+5%3A7">5:7</a>, the next person used <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+6%3A37">6:37</a> to talk about seeking certainty of Jehovah's will through study of the Scriptures. The final example was <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+6%3A25-27">6:25-27</a>, and the commenter said that discretion was important and that no needless offense should be given in the course of the ministry. This concluded the Bible highlights section, and a panel of overseers commented that the brief, prepared comments were quite effective. After this came a Bible reading by one Brother Jones of <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Judges+7%3A1-11">Judges 7:1-11</a>; the overseer commented that the reading was accurate with a good pace, and that good gestures were used while emphasizing the right words.<br /><br />Next in the Theocratic Ministry School, two female Witnesses did a scene portraying a section of Bible study in which one helps the other, playing an investigator, to see the proper (i.e., JW) interpretation of the harlot in Revelation. After reading <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+17%3A1">Revelation 17:1</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And one of the seven angels that had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying: 'Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters'</span>"), they turned to questions 17 and 18 in the book and then looked over the Scriptures again, looking also at page 219 of the appendix. When the investigator just didn't see the 'obvious' truth of the JW way of reading the text, they looked at the broader context of <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+17%3A1-2">Revelation 17:1-2</a> and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+17%3A5">5</a>, which speaks of a symbolic woman who is judged by Jehovah. Turning to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+17%3A18">verse 18</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth</span>"), the Witness explained that she is an organization, or empire. The three global empires of Satan's dominion are the religious, political, and commercial empires, and so <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+17%3A2">Revelation 17:2</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">With whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication</span>") shows that Babylon the Great must be the sum total of false religion. How did she get there? Well, this passage shows that her fornication consists in alliances with the political empire; but this implies distinction, and so Babylon is not the political empire. But <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+18%3A15">Revelation 18:15</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">The traveling merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of [their] fear of her torment and will weep and mourn</span>") shows that the merchants mourn for her; but, as they are the commercial empire, Babylon is not that either. Hence, by a process of elimination, she is the "empire of false religion", as can be seen also in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+18%3A23">Revelation 18:23</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And no light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; because your traveling merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, for by your spiritistic practice all the nations were misled</span>"). ...Does anybody out there find that line of argument convincing? Because I sure don't, and my presentation is more logically rigorous than it was in the actual scene. The 'investigator', however, saw the 'obvious' truth of it at last, and they were able to move onward. Just once, I'd like to see them show a skit in which the investigator gives <em>real</em> resistance to the teaching and poses counterarguments. At any rate, the overseers said that the scene was very well done, with a relaxed naturalness (which they said is a "quality new in our textbook") and a great use of questions and conversational ability. The overseer commended the sisters on good pace and timing as well as on correct application of Scripture (ha!).<br /><br />The last portion of the Theocratic Ministry School was a presentation by one Br. Posey from pp. 170-171 of the book <em>Reasoning from the Scriptures</em>. He spoke of how puzzle pieces are hard to put together without some sort of instruction, and then asked, "Does anyone get out of the Bible hell?" Turning to the more fundamental question of "What is hell?", he distinguished between Sheol/Hades, which is the common, unconscious grave of all mankind, and Gehenna, the lake of fire that is eternal destruction and offers no hope. Citing first <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+2%3A27">Acts 2:27</a>, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+2%3A31">31</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Because you will not leave my soul in Hades, neither will you allow your loyal one to see corruption</span> [...] <span style="color:#009900;">He saw beforehand and spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in Hades nor did his flesh see corruption</span>"), the example of Jesus, Br. Posey said that there was no corruption of flesh in the grave for him; and, turning then to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+20%3A13-14">Revelation 20:13-14</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Hades gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. And death and Hades were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire</span>"), he said that Hades is clearly not permanent, since the grave and death are cast into the lake of fire, but all in Jehovah's memory shall be brought back to life. (While offering certain correctives to a naive traditional view, this is no threat to a more nuanced, correct view of what the Bible says about the state of the dead and the afterlife.) The overseers had plenty of comments to the effect that Br. Posey had used a clear definition, good logic, and plenty of research in other Watchtower publications. (When a Jehovah's Witness says "research", they always mean seeing what else the Society publications have said on the subject; the notion of going to other sources - like, say, biblical scholarship or serious theology - is virtually unthinkable.) There was also praise for good audience contact and attention to accuracy. The overseer made a general comment that it's good to be wary of news reports so as not to disseminate unofficial information, which could be misleading and lead to a loss of credibility. Finally, we sang song #32, "Be Steadfast, Unmovable!", based on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+15%3A58">1 Corinthians 15:58</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Consequently, my beloved brothers, become steadfast, unmovable, always having plenty to do in the work of the Lord, knowing that YOUR labor is not in vain in connection with [the] Lord</span>") and then heard the standard announcements.<br /><br />The Theocratic Ministry School being at last concluded, Br. Rice delivered a talk called "How Pioneering Enhances Spirituality". Yes, that's right; another opportunity for the leadership to push everyone to become workaholics in the cause of God. He started off by talking about the importance of sunlight for one's well-being, and then said that pioneering has the same effect on one's spiritual well-being. Happiness comes to others through the good news that Jehovah's Witnesses share, after all. Br. Rice did concede that the "extent we share in the ministry will vary from person to person", but "today, lives are at stake". So, "how are you doing? Only you can answer that." He then launched into four blessings of pioneering. First, an increase in involvement in the field ministry will "rivet our attention on spiritual thoughts". The bulk of a pioneer's thoughts are focused on Jehovah, he said, since we must prepare carefully our presentation and question for each house. (Is that generally true, that most of a pioneer's thoughts are spiritual? I rather doubt it.) Second, pioneers are involved in a "spiritual rescue and search mission". Witnesses value people's lives, and so just as many are becoming involved in efforts in Haiti, so too Jehovah's Witnesses seek to call people from the broad road that leads to destruction to the narrow road that leads to life. The third blessing is schooling, since pioneers can attend the Pioneer Service School and the annual meeting of pioneers, to say nothing of the Watchtower Bible School of Gilead. The fourth blessing is that pioneering allows one to "imitate the greatest missionary, Jesus Christ", who was always willing to take up another assignment from his Father. Likewise, a pioneer is willing to do anything to accomplish his ministry. All of these blessings produce many benefits to many people. After a few interviews with some pioneers in attendance, Br. Rice said that these are times of great stress, particularly economic, so what's the sensible course to take? He urged that "it <em>is</em> practical" to "make ministry our priority", even though the devil will continue to bring economic hardship upon Jehovah's Witnesses in order to dissuade them. However, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+6%3A33">Matthew 6:33</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Keep on, then, seeking first the kingdom and his righteousness, and all these [other] things will be added to YOU</span>") outlines the proper course of action.<br /><br />At this time, Beriah took the stage to deliver the dedication talk to the baptismal candidates. (There would be 14 baptisms today, just as the previous assembly had seven, coming to a total of 21 baptisms for the circuit.) He started out by describing it as a serious but joyful day for them and then cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+3%3A6-7">1 Corinthians 3:6-7</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">I planted, Apollos watered, but God kept making [it] grow; so that neither is he that plants anything nor is he that waters, but God who makes [it] grow</span>"), saying that "Jehovah has been responsible for the growth of truth within you". Baptism isn't the end of the work; the candidates must keep on the course of developing a "special relationship with Jehovah", and their career will now be as an "ordained minister of his". Jehovah is happy with their decision, but Satan is furious. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+5%3A8-9">First Peter 5:8-9</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Keep YOUR senses, be watchful. YOUR adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour [someone]. But take YOUR stand against him, solid in the faith, knowing that the same things in the way of sufferings are being accomplished in the entire association of YOUR brothers in the world</span>") shows that it is sensible to carry something to protect oneself from Satan, who wants to "devour your spirituality and take you back into <em>his </em>system of things"--so, keep your senses, or as the Kingdom Interlinear says, "be you sober, stay you awake". Be vigilant and put on the "complete suit of armor of God" against the "craft acts of the devil" (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ephesians+6%3A11">Ephesians 6:11</a>). Returning to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+1%3A1">1 Peter 1:1</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the temporary residents scattered about in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, to the ones chosen</span>"), Beriah said that it was addressed to "baptized servants of Jehovah", and that the candidates, too, must remain alert; as <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+1%3A13">verse 13</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Hence brace up YOUR minds for activity, keep YOUR sense completely; set YOUR hope upon the undeserved kindness that is to be brought to YOU at the revelation of Jesus Christ</span>") says, we must brace our minds for activity.<br /><br />At this point came the familiar meditation on the five senses, which I remember from the district convention. First was hearing, and Beriah cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Deuteronomy+5%3A1">Deuteronomy 5:1</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And Moses proceeded to call all Israel and to say to them: 'Hear, O Israel, the regulations and the judicial decisions that I am speaking in YOUR ears today, and YOU must learn them and be careful to do them'</span>"), talking about the "method of learning the truth". One must learn to be obedient to Jehovah, to Jesus, and to the 'faithful and discreet slave', which is God's channel of communication to us. The candidates should not, however, listen to false teachings, degrading music, or unclean humor - in other words, most modern entertainment. As for sight, we should fix ourselves on the Bible (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+1%3A1-2">Psalm 1:1-2</a> - "<span style="color:#009900;">Happy is the man that has not walked in the counsel of the wicked ones, and in the way of sinners has not stood, and in the seat of ridiculers has not sat. But his delight is in the law of Jehovah, and in his law he reads in an undertone day and night</span>") and "put yourselves in there" when it comes to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Isaiah+65">Isaiah 65</a>. He also cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+101%3A3">Psalm 101:3</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">I shall not set in front of my eyes any good-for-nothing thing. The doing of those who fall away I have hated; it does not cling to me</span>") and said to read the Bible daily and turn our eyes away from bad. When it comes to smell, he reminisced for a bit about his mother's apple pie and then said that, unlike a hot pie fresh from the oven, there's no need to wait when it comes to the "delightful odor of the truth", which "should make us stop and appreciate what it is". He stressed the importance of spreading the good news. Also, since our prayers are like incense to Jehovah, we should pray without ceasing. The fourth sense was taste, and of course there was a reference to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+34%3A8">Psalm 34:8</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Taste and see that Jehovah is good, O YOU people; happy is the able-bodied man that takes refuge in him</span>"). Beriah urged the candidates to learn about Jehovah. Jesus said that doing Jehovah's will was like food for him, and this subordination of hunger to ministry is the model for all Witnesses. "This is the food for life. We want to share it with as many as we can." The fifth sense, of course, was touch. "Don't touch the unclean things in this world," Beriah counseled, but rather keep a grip on the word of life (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Philippians+2%3A16">Philippians 2:16</a> - "<span style="color:#009900;">Keeping a tight grip on the word of life, that I may have cause for exultation in Christ's day, that I did not run in vain or work hard in vain</span>"). "Use the Scriptures for your own benefit and to teach others as well." One must continue to be vigilant after baptism; after all, Jesus' temptation in the wilderness followed his baptism. Resist Satan's deception, because some even fall away from the truth shortly after baptism. Beriah went to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+1%3A13-16">1 Peter 1:13-16</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Hence brace up YOUR minds for activity, keep YOUR senses completely; set YOUR hope upon the undeserved kindness that is to be brought to YOU at the revelation of Jesus Christ. As obedient children, quit being fashioned according to the desires YOU formerly had in YOUR ignorance, but, in accord with the Holy One who called YOU, do YOU also become holy yourselves in all [YOUR] conduct, because it is written: 'YOU must be holy, because I am holy'</span>") and said that we must be holy because Jehovah is holy and perfectly clean. "We work at it", but "it's a pleasant work". "Don't trust in your own abilities." At this time, Beriah had the baptismal candidates stand and answer two questions. The first was whether, on the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, they have repented from sin and dedicated themselves to do God's will. The second was whether they understand that this baptism and dedication will identify them as Jehovah's Witnesses in association with Jehovah's organization. Naturally, they all answered yes to both, so after a prayer and song #26, "Oh, Walk with God!", based on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Micah+6%3A8">Micah 6:8</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">He has told you, O earthling man, what is good. And what is Jehovah asking back from you but to exercise justice and to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God?</span>"), all 1,184 people in attendance (minus the candidates) remained standing as the fourteen candidates filed out.<br /><br />The baptisms were at the same time as lunch, which I ate with Zibiah, Ham, and Japheth, among some others. After I finished eating, I milled around for a while. First I got to catch up with Mephibosheth and meet his wife and sister; I also eventually got introduced to Noam, another Jehovah's Witness who will recur in the narrative. At 1:30 PM, we reassembled for song #47, "Declare the Good News", based on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+14%3A6-7">Revelation 14:6-7</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people, saying in a loud voice: 'FEAR God and give him glory, because the hour of the judgment by him has arrived, and so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters'</span>"). After that came a nebulous event titled "experiences" in the bulletin. One Br. Maltry urged the audience to "search for people everywhere", particularly those "deserving ones" who will listen to their message, and he spoke of "informal witnessing" as a supplement to the field work. To illustrate, he did interviews with two female Witnesses. The first, a sixteen-year-old girl, talked about how she brought her copy of <em>What Does the Bible <u>Really</u> Teach?</em> to class at her vocational school and placed it on her desk, and then answered plenty of questions that people asked her. A number of classmates were intrigued to learn more. The other sister has a family that considered religion as taboo for conversation, but when her sister-in-law was diagnosed with ovarian cancer, she visited her and brought up the subject, citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Genesis+1%3A1">Genesis 1:1</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth</span>"), <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Job+34%3A10">Job 34:10</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Therefore, YOU men of heart, listen to me. Far be it from the [true] God to act wickedly, and the Almighty to act unjustly!</span>"), and the following paragraph from the "Bible Teach book":<br /><blockquote>In the meantime, how does Gd feel about what is going on in the world and in your life? Well, the Bible teaches that God is "a lover of justice." (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+37%3A28">Psalm 37:28</a>) So he cares deeply about what is right and what is wrong. He hates all kinds of injustice. The Bible says that God "felt hurt at his heart" when badness filled the world in times past. (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Genesis+6%3A5-6">Genesis 6:5, 6</a>) God has not changed. (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Malachi+3%3A6">Malachi 3:6</a>) He still hates to see the suffering that is taking place worldwide. And God hates to see people suffer. "He cares for you," the Bible says.--<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+5%3A7">1 Peter 5:7</a>. (<em>What Does the Bible <u>Really</u> Teach?</em>, p. 11)</blockquote>There was also an interview with a male Witness who invited his repairman to the memorial service; and as it turned out, the repairman had once studied with Jehovah's Witnesses but had let it go. When he went to the memorial service, he was very warmly embraced, and so resumed the study and was rapidly baptized.<br /><br />After a reference to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Haggai+2%3A11">Haggai 2:11</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">This is what Jehovah of armies has said: 'Ask, please, the priests as to [the] law'</span>"), it came time for the day's symposium, titled "Beware of Dangers to Your Spirituality". The first talk in the symposium, delivered by Br. Strong, was called "Why Be On the Alert?" Br. Strong started with the imagery of a soldier slacking off and relaxing; this lack of vigilance can lose lives in a time of war. We today are at war with an invisible foe, Satan, and hence must remain perpetually on the alert. He cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+2%3A16">1 Corinthians 2:16</a>, contrasting the "physical man" and the "spiritual man", the latter of whom has acquired the mind of Christ. Thanks to God's Word, he said, we aren't blind to Satan's designs: various dangers like materialism, doubts, time-wasters, and ungodly entertainment. He also, curiously enough, took the time to warn the audience not to text one another with sexually "provocative information". He then offered five benefits of living a spiritual life. The first is "refreshment in Kingdom service", and he cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+11%3A29-30">Matthew 11:29-30</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Take my yoke upon YOU and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and YOU will find refreshment for YOUR souls. For my yoke is kindly and my load is light</span>"), pointing out that this is an exchange of a heavy load for a lighter load, not an addition to our pre-existing load. We now have "good news of good things to come". The second benefit is "not toiling for uncertain riches", as true Christians don't have to worry about such things. The third benefit is "being content with what we have", and thus being able to "spend more time with our family and our Christian companions". The fourth benefit is "experiencing the true joy of giving", as shown in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+20%3A35">Acts 20:35</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">I have exhibited to YOU in all things that by thus laboring YOU must assist those who are weak, and must bear in mind the words of the Lord Jesus, when he himself said, 'There is more happiness in giving than there is in receiving'</span>"). Finally, the fifth benefit is "abounding in hope and having inner peace", since "Jesus will soon undo all the damage caused by Satan the Devil". Despite having all these benefits, we should avoid becoming overconfident. Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+10%3A12">1 Corinthians 10:12</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall</span>"), Br. Strong said that we must beware because sin is such a powerful force; even many of the heroes of faith were vulnerable. Needless to say, there came yet another reference to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+5%3A8">1 Peter 5:8</a> to finish up that talk.<br /><br />The second talk in the symposium, "Avoid Time-Consuming Distractions", delivered by a Witness whose name I doubt I can spell properly. Br. Gempar - so I'll try calling him - began by noting that 80% of traffic accidents result from what are so-called "minor distractions". We face insidious distraction designed by Satan himself to lure us away from God; the same tactics used in the first century are active today as well. Even mundane things of life can be a very real threat to our spirituality. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+7%3A31">First Corinthians 7:31</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And those making use of the world as those not using it to the full; for the scene of this world is changing</span>") shows that we mustn't let "poor use of the world" be the focus of our lives, and Br. Gempar used <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+7%3A35">verse 35</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">But I am saying this for YOUR personal advantage, not that I may cast a noose upon YOU, but to move you to that which is becoming and that which means constant attendance upon the Lord without distraction</span>") to exhort us to a constant focus on the Lord. There followed an interview with another of Jehovah's Witnesses about the rules he sets for his family. He regularly checks his children's e-mail accounts to make sure that they aren't using them for more than what's essential; he forbids them to text message; they only watch TV for select shows determined ahead of time; Internet use is carefully monitored, and they refuse to use time-wasting social networking sites like Facebook or Myspace; and the kids only get to play video games a little bit after they've prepared for meetings and done their homework. He said that while he trusts his kids, he distrusts the world, and that you just can't "leave [children] on their own to make decisions". After that interview, Br. Gempar said that another example of a distraction is trying to maintain a standard of living that we've already attained; if our income decreases, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+21%3A34">Luke 21:34</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">But pay attention to yourselves that YOUR hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon YOU</span>") shows that we must allow our standard of living to ebb equally. We should be hesitant to seek extra hours at work, because this is a distraction from our important mission. He next interviewed a couple of female Witnesses, the first of whom had quit her full-time employment of four years as pressure mounted on her to compromise her meeting attendance, and the latter of whom stopped working after the company she'd worked for was sold and she was put out of a job. She cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Malachi+3%3A10">Malachi 3:10</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">'Bring all the tenth parts into the storehouse, that there may come to be food in my house; and test me out, please, in this respect,' Jehovah of armies has said, 'whether I shall not open to YOU people the floodgates of the heavens and actually empty out upon YOU a blessing until there is no more want'</span>"). Commenting on this after the interview, Br. Gempar said that they had seen the "necessity to simplify their lifestyles so they could be zealous in Kingdom activities". He turned to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Hebrews+9%3A14">Hebrews 9:14</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">How much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works that we may render sacred service to [the] living God?</span>") for a discussion of "dead works", which - while not wrong in themselves - "don't produce any spiritual benefits" but instead can be just another escape from reality. As for uncontrollable distractions, such as health issues or injustice outside the congregation - or "even inside the congregation" - we must press on and realize that God's Kingdom will be the "only permanent solution to mankind's ills". Distractions, he said, can be divided into three categories: visual, cognitive, or manual. To resist these, the answer is to stick to a "consistent schedule of personal study and family worship". Finally, citing the ever-popular <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+15%3A58">1 Corinthians 15:58</a> again, he urged the audience to keep busy with meetings and ministry in order to avoid manual distractions.<br /><br />The symposium's third talk ("Protect Yourself Against Erosion of Your Spirituality") was delivered by Ehud, an engaging speaker from the local congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. Needless to say, with his good voice and keen wit, he always delivers one of the better talks at these sorts of things. Ehud started out by noting that while computer-animation rats like Stuart Little and Ratatouille are cute, real rats are nasty, disgusting creatures, and definitely not cute. "Satan the Rat," he said, "is out to destroy our spirituality by subtle distractions." He pointed out that the words "erode" and "rodent" come from a common etymological root, and that a rodent will, by gnawing, "slowly consume the object of its desire". He asked the audience whether our "spiritual footing [is] subject to erosion", and gave some telltale signs, such as a loss of desire to study the Bible and a loss of a sense of urgency. "We live in, arguably, the most affluent nation on this earth", but are we jealous of "the so-called good life"? Ehud said that the impact of the entertainment industry has been to effectively idolize Sodom and Gomorrah, and that even the news media focuses disproportionately on sex and violence these days. This, he said, is no more morally acceptable than it is in the film industry. Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Isaiah+5%3A20">Isaiah 5:20</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Woe to those who are saying that good is bad and bad is good, those who are putting darkness for light and light for darkness, those who are putting bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!</span>"), he urged not to let our moral faculties be eroded. Asking, "Is your congregation perfect?", the natural answer was, "Not yet." So, then, beware having negative feelings about situations in the congregation, because "do you have all the facts? Probably not." These days, Christians are "victimized by treacherous apostasy", as in the case of Judas recorded in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+22%3A3-6">Luke 22:3-6</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">But Satan entered into Judas, the one called Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve; and he went off and talked with the chief priests and [temple] captains about the effective way to betray him to them. Well, they rejoiced and agreed to give him silver money. So he consented, and he began to seek a good opportunity to betray him to them without a crowd around</span>"). Negativity crumbled Judas' spiritual foundation. Other dangers include bad associations, unwholesome entertainment, and the abuse of alcohol. Ehud paused to allow for a mini-scene featuring a family on a couch watching TV and asking why they're bothering to watch such filth; they expressed a sense of shame over having missed their circuit overseer's visit because of a scheduled vacation, and they offer some musings on the "materialism" that leads them to miss meetings for the sake of overtime. When that was done, Ehud resumed by saying that just as soil on a slope is held in place by deep-rooted plants, so too our spiritual roots must run deep. There is "nothing cute or cuddly about Satan the Rat", and so he exhorted: "Stand firm; take courage. Jehovah our God can protect us."<br /><br />The concluding talk of the symposium, "Fight to Counteract Permissiveness", was delivered by Br. Maury, who began by noting that "mankind is under assault by epidemics", and spiritual sickness is even more prevalent. Its key symptom, he said, is permissiveness/tolerance. This attitude leads to lawless conduct, as shown in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Galatians+6%3A7-8">Galatians 6:7-8</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Do not be misled: God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap; because he who is sowing with a view to his flesh will reap corruption from his flesh, but he who is sowing with a view to the spirit will reap everlasting life from the spirit</span>"). <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Numbers+25">Numbers 25</a> shows that some twenty-four thousand "die at Jehovah's own hand" after committing fornication and idolatry. God is not permissive, but Satan undermines faith with permissiveness and leads the world astray from belief in moral truth. This sets the stage for a little scene of two elders discussing how to help their congregation avoid permissiveness. They mention among various evils alcohol, social networking websites, and "Internet pornography". Permissive thinking was used by Satan in the Garden of Eden, they say, and they cite several passages, including <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Isaiah+5%3A20">Isaiah 5:20</a> (again) and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Kings+11%3A3-4">1 Kings 11:3-4</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And he came to have seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives gradually inclined his heart. And it came about in the time of Solomon's growing old that his wives themselves had inclined his heart to follow other gods; and his heart did not prove to be complete with Jehovah his God like the heart of David his father</span>"), where Solomon ignores Jehovah's counsel and as a result his wives "gradually plied his heart to serve other gods". There's a danger in having sympathy with those who indulge in these things; rather, following <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+10%3A31">1 Corinthians 10:31</a>, we ought to "do all things for God's glory". Resuming, Br. Maury asked, "How do you view those who have no interest in serving God?" The answer was that one can't associate with them and not be affected adversely (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+10%3A12">1 Corinthians 10:12</a>). Then came an interview with a 17-year-old JW girl who said that at school she was pressure to date but resisted because "dating right now was just not what I had as my goal right now". There were some references to the second chapter of the JW publication <em>Young People Ask</em>, as well as <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Galatians+6%3A7">Galatians 6:7</a> and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+10%3A21">1 Corinthians 10:21</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">YOU cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; YOU cannot be partaking of 'the table of Jehovah' and the table of demons</span>"), and it was noted that other kids at her school endured "emotional pain and immorality" because they didn't follow the obviously righteous course that she did. When Br. Maury resumed his monologue, he accused modern entertainment of being filled with "demonic propaganda" and asked the audience whether we were tempted to view or hear programs that accept things that God hates. Asking what restrictions our families place on television and Internet use, he cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+13%3A11-14">Romans 13:11-14</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">[Do] this, too, because YOU people know the season, that it is already the hour for YOU to awake from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became believers. The night is well along; the day has drawn near. Let us therefore put off the works belonging to darkness and let us put on the weapons of the light. As in the daytime let us walk decently, not in revelries and drunken bouts, not in illicit intercourse and loose conduct, not in strife and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not be planning ahead for the desires of the flesh</span>") and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ephesians+6%3A11-13">Ephesians 6:11-13</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places. On this account take up the complete suit of armor from God, that YOU may be able to resist in the wicked day and, after YOU have done all things thoroughly, to stand firm</span>"), saying that "permissiveness is a 'deficiency of firmness'", referencing the dictionary. Making four points in summary of the symposium, he urged the audience to (1) be on the lookout for dangers to their spirituality, (2) avoid time-consuming distractions, (3) protect against erosion of their faith, and (4) "fight to counteract this world's permissive spirit". After citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+1%3A27">Romans 1:27</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error</span>"), he ended the symposium by exhorting his hearers to be "determined to be spiritually vigilant".<br /><br />After song #21 ("Happy, the Merciful!", from <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+5%3A7">Matthew 5:7</a>) and some announcements that included a quote from <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+1%3A12">Romans 1:12</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Or, rather, that there may be an interchange of encouragement among YOU, by each one through the other's faith, both YOURS and mine</span>") and a guilt-trip to donate money - you know, the sort of guilt-trip that Jehovah's Witnesses pride themselves on never using - it was time for the circuit overseer, 'Nahath', to deliver yet another talk, this one titled "Put on the Lord Jesus Christ". Nahath started out by saying that uniforms are required in some contexts, like certain jobs or schools; in some cases, it's even illegal to wear a certain uniform when you're not part of the group in question (e.g., impersonating a police officer). But Jehovah's Witnesses, too, have a uniform, and their uniform, Nahath said, is none other than Jesus Christ. The relevant passage of Scripture, of course, was <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+13%3A14">Romans 13:14</a>, cited previously. As Nahath explained, "we strive to imitate the qualities and actions of our Lord Jesus", and hence must wear this uniform at all times. Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+13%3A11-13">Romans 13:11-13</a> he noted the urgency of wearing this Christian uniform. Actions are evidence of our genuineness, and so the final judgment will depend to a large extent on our "fine works". We are to be mannerly like Jesus. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Galatians+3%3A27">Galatians 3:27</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">For all of YOU who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ</span>") shows that we're to be identified with Christ by wearing this uniform, and one issue of the <em>Watchtower </em>was quoted as saying that this is the "work of a lifetime". Imitating Jesus' example and disposition requires knowing the manner of his thinking and imitating his "work ethic in spiritual things". Secular goods must not be put first, and nor are Jehovah's Witnesses to pick and choose what they want to follow, the way that many "nominal Christians" do. "Satan", however, "is always waging war with Christians" to prevent them from putting on the Lord Jesus, because this uniform includes us in an organization that will protect us through the great tribulation. Thus, we must not remove the uniform, not even when faced with persecution or temptation; we need to follow the example of Jesus in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+2%3A18-21">1 Peter 2:18-21</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Let house servants be in subjection to [their] owners with all [due] fear, not only to the good and reasonable, but also to those hard to please. For if someone, because of conscience toward God, bears up under grievous things and suffers unjustly, this is an agreeable thing. For what merit is there in it if, when YOU are sinning and being slapped, YOU endure it? But if, when YOU are doing good and YOU suffer, YOU endure it, this is a thing agreeable with God</span>"). We're to bear up when a friend in the congregation offends us, and "follow Jesus' footsteps closely". Nahath had us imagine trying to follow perfectly in somebody's set of footprints on the beach. It'd be difficult because of the distinctive ways of walking that people have. To follow perfectly in someone's footsteps, you need to conform your way of walking to theirs, as we must to Christ's. Rather than give in to daily distractions, we're to focus on the footsteps and keep the proper pace--in other words, don't "run ahead of the faithful and discreet slave", and don't "lag behind their directions", as in the case of recent alterations in JW meeting structure. (Notice how Jesus just got switched out for the Governing Body, which acts as the visible representative of the 'faithful and discreet slave class', by the way.) In other words, "keep pace with Jehovah's organization". We need to develop an ear for true and direct counsel and then apply it. Elders and pioneers should have some share in the Sunday door-to-door service, which Jehovah's Witnesses have been doing since 1927. This is a much better use of time than, e.g., lunch; someone who does publishing work with their spare time is being much more Christ-like than someone who partakes of things like food instead; Nahath cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+119%3A60">Psalm 119:60</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">I hurried up, and I did not delay to keep your commandments</span>").<br /><br />Nahath went on to say that the "whole family needs to fight" against intruders into their home, these intruders being Satan and the world. We're to "be in fighting mode" (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Jude+3">Jude 3</a> - "<span style="color:#009900;">Beloved ones, though I was making every effort to write YOU about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write YOU to exhort YOU to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones</span>"). Referencing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+4%3A1">1 Peter 4:1</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Therefore since Christ suffered in the flesh, YOU too arm yourselves with the same mental disposition; because the person that has suffered in the flesh has desisted from sins</span>"), Nahath said that there is "no room for lukewarm imitation of Jesus' manner of thinking". Next was a brief interview with a JW family, who take "full advantage of all of the theocratic provisions made available through his organization". They rely on the Father through "the power of prayer". (Yet another case of the JWs being affected by Christian-ese. Interesting.) The world has nothing to offer for the children of this family, and the whole family strives to participate in and comment at meetings, and to prepare for them. This ending the interview, Nahath turned to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+13%3A15">John 13:15</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">For I set the pattern for YOU, that, just as I did to YOU, YOU should also do</span>") and urged us to "let our works speak for themselves". Elders and ministerial servants are in congregations as servants, not lords, which Nahath illustrated with reference to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+17%3A10">Luke 17:10</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">So YOU, also, when YOU have done all things assigned to YOU, say, 'We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done'</span>"). This, he summed up in one word: "love". "Love will be our uniform, as it were". He referenced <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+14%3A31">John 14:31</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">But, in order for the world to know that I love the Father, even as the Father has given me commandment [to do], so I am doing. Get up, let us go from here</span>") and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+15%3A9-10">15:9-10</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Just as the Father has loved me and I have loved YOU, remain in my love. If YOU observe my commandments, YOU will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love</span>"), saying that "Jehovah loves the Son because of his implicit obedience". Indeed, "Christ died on a torture stake" to show his pure love, and so we too must "practice genuine love".<br /><br />That led the way for the final talk, "What Characterizes a Spiritual Person?", delivered by Ezbon. Noting that illness has been prevalent in recent years and that we recognize symptoms and fight it, he queried, "What about spiritual illness?" Nothing gets to the heart without going through the mind. Noting that the sick are advised to drink lots of fluid, he advised the hearers to drink the waters of life--namely, God's Word. There was a reference to the 15 September 2008 issue of <em>The Watchtower</em>, which counseled to keep a clean mind in order to receive a clean spirit. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+2%3A13">First Corinthians 2:13</a> talks of spiritual matters and spiritual words. Ezbon commented on the <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+2%3A14">next verse</a> that the "physical man does not examine all things", just his area of interest, which is thoroughly non-spiritual. The <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+2%3A15">verse after that</a>, however, shows that the spiritual man examines all things. Ezbon then used the image of a person stuck in traffic on the interstate, trying to decide whether to remain in line or try to exit; but, seeing a traffic helicopter above, he turns to the radio station and finds a solution--"wisdom from above, humanly speaking".<br /><br />At this point, Ezbon began to discuss the characteristics of spiritual and non-spiritual persons. A spiritual person will, first of all, have a "simple eye". Ezbon told the story of two pioneers in different states being offered lucrative jobs. One of them turned down the offer and instead remained in the full-time ministry. The other, however, accepted the offer and spent several years focused on their career and promotions before finally regaining their senses and taking a demotion in order to devote more time to ministry. Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+7%3A31">1 Corinthians 7:31</a>, Ezbon explained that this <em>kosmos</em> is "the world-system, humanity", and that Jehovah's Witnesses go in, not to love it, but solely out of necessity. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+John+2%3A15-17">First John 2:15-17</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; because everything in the world--the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one's means of life--does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever</span>") shows that this <em>kosmos</em> is passing away; however, Jehovah's Witnesses are permitted to use technology for Jehovah's goals, as with the giant printing presses used by the Society to more effectively distribute their message. Jehovah's Witnesses use the world only to an extent; Ezbon, stressing the value of having God's Kingdom as one's chief priority, asked the audience, "Could you simplify your life?" There is, after all, a time to throw away (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ecclesiastes+3%3A6">Ecclesiastes 3:6</a>). According to the September 2009 issue of <em>Awake!</em>, in 2008 today's teenagers spent an average of 6.5 hours per day in "electronic isolation", whereas in 2009 this had already leapt to 8 hours per day. So, Ezbon asked, "Are we preoccupied with 'things'?" Some people fall for "a job that effectively ends their service to Jehovah", but if this entire world isn't worth that cost, how much less a single job? He told a few stories to illustrate, including one of a JW truck driver who refused jobs that would interfere with meeting times, and who then was offered a job that didn't and would also pay more than all the others put together.<br /><br />Ezbon spoke for a while about the misuse of time, noting that rather than waste it on ungodly entertainment, "spiritual people are generous of their time and their assets". After quoting <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Proverbs+21%3A17">Proverbs 21:17</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">He that is loving merriment will be an individual in want; he that is loving wine and oil will not gain riches</span>"), Ezbon asserted that the root of the word "amusement" is "a-muse", that is, "not thinking". Rather than be "lovers of pleasures" (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=2+Timothy+3%3A4">2 Timothy 3:4</a>), we should balance our time and be "absorbed in spiritual matters" (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+2">1 Corinthians 2</a>; <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+5">Romans 5</a>). People who do this are true "self-starters" and don't let their minds drift at meetings. In <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+3%3A17">Revelation 3:17</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Because you say: 'I am rich and have acquired riches and do not need anything at all,' but you do not know that you are miserable and pitiable and poor and blind and naked</span>"), Jesus blasted even the anointed Christians at Laodicea, and so we mustn't ignore warning signs. Citing <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Proverbs+4%3A14">Proverbs 4:14</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Into the path of the wicked ones do not enter, and do not walk straight on into the way of the bad ones</span>") and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ecclesiastes+7%3A8">Ecclesiastes 7:8</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Better is the end afterward of a matter than its beginning. Better is one who is patient than one who is haughty in spirit</span>"), he urged the audience to always look at both the consequences of our actions as well as at biblical principles that should guide our actions. He brought up "sexting" as a recent problem, and warned the audience that if they should do such things, "dirty-minded demons" are watching them, and they shouldn't expose themselves to that. He then noted some of the consequences of wrongdoing: (1) facing a judicial committee, (2) bringing anguish to one's family, (3) the shock to one's peers in the congregation service meeting, (4) disappointment to one's friends, and finally (5) shame in the sight of Jehovah, Christ, and the angels. Ezbon also said that "some, being well-meaning, have associated with disfellowshipped relatives", but faithful Jehovah's Witnesses must keep such contact to an absolute minimum, being loyal to God instead; after all, Ezbon remarked, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Corinthians+5%3A11">1 Corinthians 5:11</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man</span>") offers no exception in the case of family relationships. Many disfellowshipped persons seek to return because their families stick to their guns, as it were, while if they get to retain that degree of family contact, there's less of a social incentive to return to the true faith. So, he told the audience, if you get disfellowshipped, don't call to socialize until you're reinstated.<br /><br />The next exhortation he had was to respectfully apply counsel. Counsel is not to be viewed the same way as criticism, but should be accepted humbly; if one responds to light counsel, that averts the need for more heavy-handed counsel later. (So, in other words, do what you're told, or there'll be consequences.) He cited <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+141%3A5">Psalm 141:5</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Should the righteous one strike me, it would be a loving-kindness; and should he reprove me, it would be oil upon the head, which my head would not want to refuse. For still there would be even my prayer during their calamities</span>") as well as <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Mark+10%3A21">Mark 10:21</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Jesus looked upon him and felt love for him and said to him: 'One thing is missing about you: Go, sell what things you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven, and come be my follower'</span>"), noting how Jesus offered counsel out of love. The elders of today's congregations are imperfect, but Jehovah knows all of their faults and appoints them anyway, so the proper approach is to look at the counsel given rather than the counselor; as Ezbon quipped, "After all, who did Jehovah use as a counselor for Balaam?" (That got quite a few laughs from the crowd; I'll have to remember that line.)<br /><br />Then came yet another reminder to be diligent in the door-to-door ministry. The audience was told to focus especially on afternoons, weekends, and holidays, because people are more likely to be home. They should also persist in trying to contact those who aren't at home on initial visits. Joy in the ministry should be based on obedience rather than results, because a good work is being done "regardless of people's apathy". When it comes to irritation in the local congregation, however, the right course of action is to respond with sincere love. After all, in a courtroom setting, witnesses and judges have different roles, and the Scriptures never tell anyone to be "Jehovah's Judges"! Finally, Ezbon turned his attention to the inevitable subject: having a genuine sense of urgency, since Jehovah's Witnesses must "realize that we're living at the end". Hearkening back to the 2009 district convention, there's a need to be vigilant and alert (cf. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+24%3A42-44">Matthew 24:42-44</a> - "<span style="color:#009900;">Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming. But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming</span>"). He asked, "Are we eagerly expectating [<em>sic</em>] a change?" One shouldn't buy into Satan's lie that this system will continue much longer. <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+22%3A20">Revelation 22:20</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">He that bears witness of these things says, 'Yes; I am coming quickly.' 'Amen! Come, Lord Jesus'</span>") shows that "great expectation" we might have in "these pre-Armageddon days", and on that note he ended.<br /><br />All 1,149 in attendance in the afternoon session - less than the morning, oddly enough - rose to sing song #50, "The Divine Pattern of Love", based on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+John+4%3A19">1 John 4:19</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">As for us, we love, because he first loved us</span>"), and then joined in a prayer led by Nahath. When all was said and done, I knew I'd be there for quite some time, since Uriah, Shem, and Atarah were all working in the coatroom. So I milled around for a while, met a few folks, did some reading, and ended up chatting with one Witness on a bench near the baptismal pool about religion; he pontificated for a bit about how others misinterpret and twist the obvious meaning of Jesus' words about Gehenna, because they want to create a hell of fiery torment out of the plainly visible reality of the Valley of Hinnom. After he left, I spent some more time reading <em>Let God Be True</em> before it was finally time to depart. I knew I'd need to get some rest before another day of the assembly.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-13429017641365936082010-01-24T11:23:00.005-05:002010-01-24T12:12:35.746-05:00Questions from Readers #1: JWs and Romans 8:8-9Hello, everybody! A special installment today, because I actually got a question from a reader. I hope he doesn't mind if I post my answer here, since it might make a good post. His question was, "What would a Jehovah's Witness answer to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+8%3A8-9">Romans 8:8-9</a> (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+8%3A1-9">vv. 1-9</a> itself)?" And that's a very good question.<br /><br />First things first, I ought to post the text of Romans 8:1-9 as found in the New World Translation:<br /><blockquote><span style="color:#009900;">Therefore those in union with Christ have no condemnation. For the law of that spirit which gives life in union with Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For, there being an incapability on the part of the Law, while it was weak through the flesh, God, by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who walk, not in accord with the flesh, but in accord with the spirit. For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those in accord with the spirit on the things of the spirit. For the minding of the flesh means death, but the minding of the spirit means peace and life; because the minding of the flesh means enmity with God, for it is not under subjection to the law of God, nor, in fact, can it be. So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God. However, <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span> are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God's spirit truly dwells in <span style="font-size:85%;">YOU</span>. But if anyone does not have Christ's spirit, this one does not belong to him.</span></blockquote>The apparent problem posed for Jehovah's Witnesses by this passage, I think it seems, is that Jehovah's Witnesses divide believers into two primary classes: (1) the "anointed", a limited number of spirit-begotten believers, and (2) the "great crowd", an indefinite quantity of faithful believers who are nevertheless not spirit-begotten. Paul, however, here describes two groups of people: (1) those who have the spirit and can please God, and (2) those who lack the spirit, being in accord rather with the flesh, and hence cannot please God. There seems to be no room anywhere here for a faithful believer, Jehovah's Witness or not, who lacks the spirit.<br /><br />It reminds me of a discussion I had with Uriah at the <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/06/study-meeting-20.html">twentieth study meeting</a>. The answer given - which, I'll add, did not affect my argument as a whole after I tweaked it just a little bit - was that, while only the anointed are "spirit-begotten" or "anointed by the spirit", all Jehovah's Witnesses ("great crowd"/"other sheep" included) can be described as indwelt by the spirit, and so there is no conflict between Pauline teaching and theirs at this point because all Jehovah's Witnesses "have Christ's spirit".<br /><br />As far as substantiating that view from official JW literature, here's what I can offer so far on a quick glance. In the 15 October 2001 issue of <em>The Watchtower</em>, there's an article called "Who Will Separate Us From God's Love?" In the ninth paragraph, they write:<br /><blockquote>When saddening things happen to us, we could begin to feel abandoned, even imagining that God's love for us has waned. Since we are all subject to such happenings, we do well to consider carefully the very consoling words of the apostle Paul recorded in Romans chapter 8. These words were addressed to spirit-anointed Christians. Yet, in principle they also apply to those of the other sheep, who have been declared righteous as God's friends, as was Abraham in pre-Christian times.--<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+4%3A20-22">Romans 4:20-22</a>; <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=James+2%3A21-23">James 2:21-23</a>.</blockquote>While the direct reference here is probably to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+8%3A38-39">Romans 8:38-39</a>, it may indicate their overall approach to the chapter. In the 15 February 1975 issue of <em>The Watchtower</em>, p. 106, Romans 8:9 is cited in the direct context of those who have been anointed with the spirit, which is of course reserved for the 144,000. They say, among other things, that "the principal evidence one anointed to the heavenly calling has is this spirit or dominant sense of sonship, that is, of having been begotten by God to spiritual sonship as one of the 144,000 heirs of the heavenly kingdom". In context, however, the argument may be that those who live according to the flesh do not have God's spirit in their lives and thus cannot be anointed with the spirit. They go on to use Romans 8:9 to contrast the orderly worship of Jehovah's Witnesses, which is in accord with the spirit, to "practices that smack of fleshly tribal customs or of religious sects that encourage uncontrolled emotionalism". Similar use of the same verse is made on page 28 of the 22 May 1975 issue of <em>Awake!</em>, which is part of an article about whether "religious ecstasy" is evidence of the presence of God's spirit.<br /><br />In the second volume of the 1988 publication <em>Insight into the Scriptures</em>, the article on "Spirit" gives the appearance of referring Romans 8:9 only to the anointed class, but I think the reference there is better understood as merely saying that it applies to them--as in, those who are spirit-anointed joint-heirs with Christ should eschew the flesh and live in accord with the spirit, as said in Romans 8:9. The very next paragraph says that "the holy spirit is God's 'free gift,' which he gladly grants to those who sincerely seek and request it", without any attempt to restrict this to the 144,000.<br /><br />Also, on the second page of the March 1976 <em>Kingdom Ministry</em>, there's a part that gives official directions on how to run the 28 March 1976 service meeting. For part of it, the leader is told:<br /><blockquote><strong>12 min:</strong> Stay Close to Congregation. Talk; involve audience. All of us know need to be led by God's spirit. (Rom. 8:9) God's spirit active when brothers gathered together for discussion of spiritual things. (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+1%3A11-12">Rom. 1:11, 12</a>) While we incite each other to love and fine works on different occasions, what is best time? Is it not usually at meetings? (Read, discuss <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Hebrews+10%3A23-25">Hebrews 10:23-25</a>) Discuss ways in which we strengthen and encourage others at meetings; include need to prepare for and comment at meetings. Need to encourage those in our book study group and those with whom we are conducting home Bible studies to attend meetings. Cover Question Box.</blockquote>This seems to give a strong indication that Romans 8:9 is meant to apply to all those in the audience, if "all of us know [the] need to be led by God's spirit". Also, the 1 September 1982 issue of <em>The Watchtower</em> says on page 19 that all Christians (that is, Jehovah's Witnesses) "can confidently pray to be filled with God's holy spirit", and Romans 8:9 is among the Scripture citations for the paragraph.<br /><br />After looking at those references, few and far between though they are, it seems likely that Jehovah's Witnesses draw a distinction between having the spirit and being anointed with the spirit; that they see the former as a necessary but not sufficient condition for the latter; and that by drawing this distinction, they avoid running afoul of Romans 8:8-9. They can claim, without doing violence to their theology, that all of them have Christ's spirit, and so all of them are to live in harmony with the spirit and all of them belong to Christ.<br /><br />So, if I've understood correctly the particular issue posed by my reader with reference to Romans 8:8-9, I believe that this is how Jehovah's Witnesses would answer it.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-2516590565525163532010-01-16T20:54:00.006-05:002010-01-23T18:13:17.145-05:00JW Study Meeting #31As with the last meeting, Uriah and Shem arrived at 2:00 PM. First came the typical obligatory chitchat at the beginning and some hammering out of details regarding the circuit assembly. I learned, for example, that every year, they have one two-day circuit assembly (that's the one coming up), another one-day circuit assembly, and then a 'special' assembly that sounded intriguing and evidently is more specifically tailored to the immediate needs of the circuit in question, such as moral issues relevant to those congregations. As Uriah put it, "If a bunch of us are starting to get drunk and axe-murder people, then it'll deal with that. Stuff like that." (I'm starting to get the feeling that I live in a particularly exciting circuit...) Uriah also mentioned once again that the seats at the circuit assembly are much more comfortable than the ones we sat in at the district convention. He also pointed out how nice it is to have the baptisms displayed on a large screen, because everyone who gets baptized will generally have at least a few people who want to watch, and that adds up to a substantial crowd.<br /><br />When we eventually turned back to the chapter, Shem read paragraphs 12 and 13 first. By this point in time, I had realized that I was feeling rather light-headed today and was probably not going to be nearly as capable as usual of actually thinking carefully through my answers, and I admitted as much to them. (This also means that I was feeling even more non-confrontational than usual, which you may see reflected in my record of the discussion.) These paragraphs and the next one dealt largely with how, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, their preaching ministry is the direct fulfillment of <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Daniel+12%3A4">Daniel 12:4</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant</span>"). Contrast this, first of all, with the way contemporary dispensationalist 'end-times' gurus tend to interpret this verse--in which the word "true" of course never appears, but rather is a JW addition to the text--with reference to modern advances in technology and science. As for the ensuing conversation:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> "How has 'true knowledge' become abundant in this 'time of the end'?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Well, no matter how, exactly, you interpret the verse in question, it's undeniable that the truth of God's message is being spread. By whom, where, when... One thing you can't deny is that it is being spread.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> The message is going forth.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Right. So what we-- what we agree on here is, the prophecy inspired by God did come true-- has-- is coming true, and God will not fail to make this known as the system winds down. The devil's not gonna overpower him.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Right.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay, good. We both know different things that the devil has tried and keeps trying, and he's not winning. God is going to have his will done. Okay! That was easy. Okay...</p></blockquote>At that point, I read paragraph 14 (and for anyone who's for some reason following along in their copy or anything, this is page 92 of the JW publication <em>What Does the Bible <u>Really</u> Teach?</em>) for the group. That one focuses more on how, in their belief, Jehovah's Witnesses are the ones fulfilling the passage (as well as ) because of their ministry. In the paragraph, they assert:<br /><blockquote>Throughout the earth, the good news of the Kingdom--what the Kingdom is, what it will do, and how we can receive its blessings--is being preached in over 230 lands and in more than 400 languages. Millions of Jehovah's Witnesses zealously preach the Kingdom good news. They come from "all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues." (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+7%3A9">Revelation 7:9</a>) The Witnesses conduct free home Bible studies with millions of people who want to know what the Bible really teaches. What an impressive fulfillment of prophecy, especially since Jesus foretold that true Christians would be "objects of hatred by all people"!--<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+21%3A17">Luke 21:17</a>.</blockquote>When Uriah asked the book's assigned study question ("How widespread is the preaching of the Kingdom good news today, and who are preaching it?"), I replied that of course I know that we'll have some disagreements as to who's doing the work and how well (not to mention exactly how directly contemporary developments relate to biblical prophecy), but we can move beyond that to rejoice that the work is being done. Since my church recently had a guest speaker who talked to us about the word of <a href="http://www.wycliffe.org/">Wycliffe Bible Translators</a>, I managed to get us onto the topic of Bible translation. Uriah talked quite a bit about how "the Society" has computer programs that can assist in translating from one language to another--I remember seeing some of this in more primitive form on one of the videos I'd watched a while back, in which the computers being used are absolutely archaic by modern standards. We talked about the languages out there that have yet to receive any of the Bible. I personally suspect that when <em>What Does the Bible <u>Really</u> Teach?</em> boasts of the "more than 400 languages" in which they're working (Uriah suspects that it's risen to maybe 500 since then, but since there are around <a href="http://www.ethnologue.com/">6,909</a> known living languages, that's still a pittance), every single one of those has already been reached by more orthodox missionaries. When I asked, Uriah said (but wasn't sure) that in most cases the Watchtower probably translates the English <em>New World Translation</em> into other languages, rather than working anew from Hebrew and Greek texts. (I won't pass judgment on this, since Wycliffe Bible Translators probably does the same and I'm sure they're doing fine work, even if I imagine that the distant future will require better translations from the original text itself. Both Wycliffe Bible Translators and the folks at the Watchtower do purportedly check their results against the Hebrew and Greek.) However, he also asserted that the <em>New World Translation</em> in English was itself translated directly from Hebrew and Greek, which I find possible but suspect. When we finally returned to the question at hand, Uriah found that perhaps we have a bit of agreement after all: <blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay, well, you and I completely agree on paragraph 14 as far as when we say who's teaching it, we can agree that it's people who use the Bible.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Yeah. [Not (?)] Muslims, Hindus... Mormons... [<em>laughs</em>] It's people who use the Bible that's inspired by God without adding or subtracting anything from it.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Good. Okay-- Because, you know, there's groups that are doing it that are sincere [...] the right thing. We don't personally believe they're the right group, but they are sincere; they're doing the right thing for the right reasons.</p></blockquote>Shem then read paragraph 15, which started a concluding section entitled "What Will You Do?" (Paragraphs 12-14 had comprised a section called "Positive Developments!", in contrast to the overriding negativity of, well, pretty much everything before that in the chapter. Paragraph 15 essentially, after the preceding material, finally announces that it's sure that we've reached the very end of this system of things; and it was followed by a two-part question:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Shem:</strong> "Since so many Bible prophecies are being fulfilled today, do you not agree that we are living in the last days? After the good news is preached to Jehovah's satisfaction, 'the end' is certain to come. [(<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+24%3A14">Matthew 24:14</a>)] 'The end' means the time when God will get rid of wickedness on earth. To destroy all who willfully oppose him, Jehovah will use Jesus and powerful angels. [(<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=2+Thessalonians+1%3A6-9">2 Thessalonians 1:6-9</a>)] Satan and his demons will no longer mislead the nations. After that, God's Kingdom will shower blessings upon all who submit to its righteous rulership.[--<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+20%3A1-3">Revelation 20:1-3</a>; <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+21%3A3-5">21:3-5</a>.]"</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> "Do you believe that we are living in the last days, and why?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Well, I believe that we've been living in "the last days" since the times of the apostles.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> So in that sense, I can answer, "Yes, I believe that we are living in the last days."</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Yeah. (?)</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I believe that first and foremost because the New Testament has already declared these are the last days that we're living in. I also believe that we're living in the last days because time is moving on, and no matter when the final consummation is going to come, it's getting closer and closer every single second. That's something I think that is probably not a matter of controversy here.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Right, right.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> We need to be prepared for it when it does come.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Right! You know, when I talk about this with people... Let's say that human beings have been on the earth for 6000 years, give or take-- you're, what, how old are you?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Twenty-one. And twenty-two maybe... next week? Couple of weeks.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Let's say you're 22. And let's say that science marches on, the medical profession starts doing what it can - which is kind of a joke [<em>laughs</em>] - for the betterment of mankind, and you're already civilized, you know about hygiene and all that, let's say you live to a hundred years old, 'cause that gets to be the life expectancy [...]. You're already 22, so that gives you only 88 years left. That's how close the end is, for you personally. It's in the next 88 years. And [Shem] and I have less! [<em>laughs</em>] It's closer for us. If we're going to use 100 as our date of death and that's all we can do to serve God. So if you look at the 6,000 years and the 88, it's close! It's real close. If we go to Timothy, and see what people are going to be like in the last days, we know it's even closer than that. I doubt that you're going to reach 100 in this system of things. Or 30. I personally doubt it, but I don't know. I <em>don't</em> know. But if we look at what the Bible's telling us, if we do an in-depth study of Revelation, I think-- like you and most people, even people who aren't religious, know that something's coming, something's changing, uhh... Talk to people who are 50 years old, ask them what it was like when they were a kid, things are getting worse faster.</p></blockquote>I'll omit Uriah's extended discourse about how generations of farmers used to follow in their fathers' footsteps but no longer do because the skills utilized by one generation are obsolete by the next. He went on to add, "But, like I said, the end of this system of things is at most 88 years for you personally. Barring any accidents or disease or whatever. So that's how long you have to please God at most. [<em>laughs</em>] You're close; [Shem]'s way closer." (When Uriah tried to assert that he's 28 years old, in the manner of many older folks playfully reasserting their youth, I fired back that he's been 28 years old since the American Revolution.) Another member of my household chimed in eventually to correct Uriah's math, since 100 - 22 = 78, not 88. When it came time for the second half of the question:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay, "What will 'the end' mean for those who oppose Jehovah and for those who submit to the rulership of God's Kingdom?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> For those who oppose Jehovah, 'the end' will not mean anything good. It will mean their destruction, because they've been holding out against a loving Ruler who has been urging them to lay down their arms of rebellion and come back in. And they've steadfastly refused and refused and refused, and that can't keep going on forever. There has to be a deadline. When that deadline is finally reached, it's time for justice and they'll be destroyed.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> But for those who do submit to his rulership, it will be the beginning of every conceivable blessing and many that we can't conceive of, because the King we serve will finally be acknowledged as ruler of all, and reality will reflect that.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Excellent. Good.</p></blockquote>I was then called upon to read paragraph 16, which urges the reader to become involved in studying the Bible and getting to know God better and making it one's "habit to associate regularly with others who seek to do Jehovah's will". Nothing really controversial there, and I answered accordingly. The last two paragraphs were similarly inoffensive. Paragraph 17 dealt with how many people would be caught utterly off-guard by God's surprising sudden action. During the discussion on that one, we talked a bit about how even people who attend church and read the Bible can be caught off-guard, because (as I put it) what matters is more than being in a place and having an object; one needs to do with both according to the purpose for which they were given us. Uriah also asked about whether it was enough to also tithe (one common critique JWs have for 'Christendom' is that tithing seems to them to be what some other 'Christians' hold as our sole responsibility to God); I referred to this mentality as "paying God off" and a "cosmic bribe". We also discussed how many people, when confronted by Jehovah's Witnesses, will say something along the lines of, "I already have a church." (The JW book <em>Reasoning from the Scriptures</em>, of course, has several polite replies to this. I, however, offered up the simpler answer I would say if I were a Jehovah's Witness hearing that while going door-to-door: "So?") Uriah also created a hypothetical scenario in which some friends of mine mock my faith and urge me to do something ungodly with them, and I answered that I'd refuse and explain to them "the reasons why I'm not willing to, I don't know, go on some crazy escapade to Iceland to retrieve the head of the prime minister". Uriah's response? "Yeah, yeah, right." Shem's, on the other hand, was just, "...Wow..." (Uriah isn't the only one with a somewhat twisted imagination, heh.)<br /><br />Paragraph 18 then dealt with Jesus' warnings not to be caught up in a hedonistic lifestyle that pays no attention to the things of God. I answered the relevant question ("What warning by Jesus should we take to heart?") quite satisfactorily, of course, since it was about as easy as it can get. So Uriah tossed me another hypothetical scenario in which I'm a minister counseling a man who works in, e.g., a hula-hoop factory every weekday, watches some sports to unwind on Saturday, goes to church for a bit on Sunday and sleeps through some of the message because he's so exhausted, and then just repeats it all the next week. First he asked how "Jesus' warning would fit into that schedule", and I said:<br /><blockquote>There's no ultimate purpose, there's no-- it's way too cyclical, it just views the same thing repeating over and over again as if that's the pattern that the entire universe always has and always will use. Jesus is talking about something linear, something where there are big things, God-things, that break into our lives and dramatically disrupt our little routines. That sort of cycle of a week you just described gives no attention to anything beyond itself. There's no-- These rituals here, these rituals here, all the little routines that never go beyond themselves. So that's what he was warning us against: getting so caught up in these little mundane things that we miss out on the overall trajectory of the reality in which we live.</blockquote>Then he asked what advice I'd give to the man if he objected that the Bible commands him to support his family and so he can't find time or energy for spirituality, and I said:<br /><blockquote>Well, the first thing I'd do is take him to some words of Paul that talk about whether we live, we live to God, whether we die, we die to Christ, you know, whatever we do, it's for him. So the first thing I would do is ask him, probe around a little bit, if these-- you know, his job at the hula-hoop factory or whatever - if he's really doing every task to God, to Christ. And from the description, it sounds like he isn't, so the first thing that he can do is learn to take his little day-to-day things that he knows he has to do, and reorient their purpose, make sure that even in the little routines he's doing, he's got this big picture encapsulated within all that that fits into a larger pattern, a pattern with an order. The next thing I'd say is that if he knows he's got a limited amount of energy, make sure that God comes first, because he's rendering to Caesar the things that are God's at that moment. What he needs to do is make sure that God gets our firstfruits, not the little, you know, whatever we have in the back storage shed. And he's got to make sure that he follows through on that, you know, not making the error of Ananias and Sapphira and holding something back. He's got to really give it all over. So those are two of the first things I'd say, make sure you're putting God first in allocating your limited resources, as it were, and making sure that everything else is transformed by that transcendental focus, and three, learn how to reorganize your schedule a little bit here and there to make sure you do have time and energy for the things that matter. You know, maybe go to bed a bit earlier on Saturday night, not spend so much time, you know, on sports and whatever, so that you can pay more attention on Sunday, you're not just sleeping through it. And make sure that you have enough energy to focus on what's being said, really think about it, and then see how you can apply that throughout the cycles as the week goes on, and always be focused on where it's all headed.</blockquote>After Uriah approved my answer, he asked me what advice I'd give the man about prayer, and I said that I'd tell him to integrate it into every facet of his life. Uriah, Shem, and I then turned to the customary end-of-chapter box located at the bottom of page 95. We read the three fairly uncontroversial statements summarizing the chapter's least controversial points. To discuss one of them, we turned to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=2_Timothy+3%3A1-5">2 Timothy 3:1-5</a> again, and Uriah asked me if the "critical times hard to deal with" would be for everybody but Christians. I denied that we'd get any sort of exception from trials and tribulations, and said on the contrary that we'd get our lion's share. Uriah was delighted with the answer, and after we noted that Satan wouldn't need to waste much time tempting wayward folks off the path, I gave as an analogy a quarterback running toward the wrong goal without the ball, and how the opposing team will instead be tackling the player who's posing a threat by running the right way with the ball. It was, as I noted thereafter, probably the first adequate sports analogy I've ever used. I think we were all a bit surprised. When discussing verse 5 ("<span style="color:#009900;">having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power</span>"), Uriah asked me if I'd heard what Pat Robertson recently said about Haiti, which gave me an occasion to promptly refer to Robertson as "an idiot" and catalogue a few of his other idiotic public statements. I also told Uriah my friend Daniel's favorite disclaimer story about <em>The 700 Club</em>; rather than saying that the show does not necessarily reflect the network's views, they found it more accurate to bluntly state that the show does <em>not</em> reflect the network's views.<br /><br />(There was also a brief retelling of a story from a Bethelite speaker whose brother had no interest in Jehovah's Witnesses. The guy was given an issue of <em>The Watchtower</em> but, not intending to read it, threw it in the bathroom trash. Shortly thereafter, he caught some sort of bug and ended up with pretty bad diarrhea, which put him in the bathroom for several hours. Needing something to read, he fished <em>The Watchtower</em> from the trash, read it all the way through, and decided he'd like a JW Bible study after all. Now, I've heard some interesting stories alleging God's special intervention in a person's life to guide them along, but I haven't heard too many that involved diarrhea!)<br /><br />Uriah also noticed that in the stack of books behind me - needless to say, my house contains many stacks of books, a title that caught his eye: <em>Slaves, Women, and Homosexuals</em>. It was beneath my copy of L. Ron Hubbard's laughable <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Dianetics-Modern-Science-Mental-English/dp/140314446X/">Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health</a></em>. I explained briefly that William Webb's <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Slaves-Women-Homosexuals-Exploring-Hermeneutics/dp/0830815619/">Slaves, Women, and Homosexuals: Exploring the Hermeneutics of Cultural Analysis</a></em> was about Webb's detailed system of determining how to properly get from what the Bible says about something to how we should behave today. He tested his technique on three of the most controversial issues he could find in that regard: slavery, women, and homosexuality--hence the title.<br /><br />Anyway, we finished up Chapter 9 ("Are We Living in 'the Last Days'?"), and the next study meeting will begin Chapter 10 ("Spirit Creatures--How They Affect Us"). However, the next time I'll see Uriah and Shem will be at the circuit assembly at the end of the month.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-22347842324760004972010-01-09T23:14:00.004-05:002010-01-27T21:00:21.006-05:00JW Study Meeting #30Uriah and Shem arrived at 2:00 PM, as scheduled; 1:00 PM was becoming increasingly inconvenient for my household. As usual, we started with some fairly idle chitchat, chiefly about pets, travel, etc. I inquired as to any upcoming events, and aside from a circuit assembly that I hope to attend at the end of the month, the only certain date as of now is that Uriah will be delivering a talk on February 14 at a local Kingdom Hall. The reason for the rearrangements is that every three months, a Kingdom Hall gets a visit from a Bethelite speaker, and a Bethelite gets to choose when in that time frame they wish to visit. One had chosen the last week of his, and the next had chosen the first week of his, but two back-to-back Bethelite speakers just isn't a good idea, so they're working on juggling things around. Shem quipped that it'd be funny if the Bethelites were back-to-back and gave the exact same talk, and Uriah thought it'd be even funnier to see how many people wouldn't even notice. He also added that no one sleeps during their meetings anymore, though there used to be one elderly, blind JW who did, which was understandable. To quote them:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> We don't have anybody that sleeps anymore.</p><p><strong>Shem:</strong> I haven't seen any.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> We had a-- We had a brother that slept pretty much regularly through every meeting. I mean, he was-- he was old, and he was blind. So he would study on the tapes, and he would answer <em>a</em> question, and after that he was pretty much [<em>snoring sound</em>]. [<em>laughs</em>] Which is a shame, he was our only blind person. He was handy for being the--</p><p><strong>Shem:</strong> Chaperone.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> --chaperone on dates. [<em>laughs</em>]</p></blockquote>I also asked about the current size and demographics of their own congregation, since I haven't been there in a while. Uriah said that it had been rather steady at around 80 for quite a years, but two JW families had recently moved to the area, and so they now have 87 members. I got the impression that their congregation hasn't gained more than maybe one or two converts at most over the past number of years, which I find interesting. I'll have to pay close attention to the number of baptisms at the circuit assembly, because now that I think about it, there were only 34 baptisms at the district convention last year (see <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/08/evangelical-report-from-jw-district.html">my report from the convention's second day</a>), and they seemed quite pleased with the number. Now, a number of those seemed to be youth who were, presumably, from JW households. And that was for an entire district including territory from three states, with well over 5000 people in attendance. I have a feeling that conversion rates are quite, quite low. Anyway, Uriah and Shem also said that their congregation is mostly weighted towards the elderly (their oldest JW woman is 85); they've got some kids, pretty evenly distributed up to the early teens, and then a rather sparse gap, and then it gets rather evenly distributed (though sparsely) for the upper 20s and 30s; they could only think of one JW in their congregation who's perhaps within a year of my age.<br /><br />Uriah also had a brief story about little kids and the door-to-door ministry. To summarize, they were using a van in the door-to-door publishing work, and they had a pair of young sisters with them; the younger one was five and very spoiled. The older sister (not sure how old) wanted to go on a door-to-door visit without her little sister because she knew they'd be discussing serious spiritual matters. The little sister insisted on going, but Uriah offered to babysit for a bit while the older sister and another JW made the call. So, sure enough, after the older sister left, the little one started throwing a temper tantrum inside the van (Uriah rolled the windows up to muffle the predictable noise), and so he said to her, "You know what, [girl]? If you don't stop screaming, I'm gonna start this car, and we're gonna leave. We're gonna leave your sister standing there, and you'll never see her again." Evidently, it worked quite well as a deterrent to the tantrum.<br /><br />We eventually got to the subject at hand (and I should note that I'm being sparing with detail and precise chronological order because I've had to type this material over several times now, but my computer keeps destroying it...), which led to us beginning a new chapter. Chapter 9 of <em>What Does the Bible <u>Really</u> Teach?</em> is entitled, "Are We Living in 'the Last Days'?" We wanted to hurry to the content because, as Uriah put it, "We gotta keep hustlin' here because [Shem]'s got a hot date. Don't wanna make him late." The chapter mostly consisted of a walkthrough of key verses in the Olivet Discourse (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+24">Matthew 24</a>--on which, see <a href="http://www.preteristsite.com/plain/warrenend.html">this excellent online commentary</a> by a very cool friend of mine). Early on in the chapter, though, there's a brief discussion of "war in heaven", focusing on passages like <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+12">Revelation 12</a>. The fourth paragraph assumes that the reader is already convinced that "Jesus Christ became King in heaven in the year 1914" and cites <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Daniel+7%3A13-14">Daniel 7:13-14</a> in support. There was also a footnote referencing a section of the book's appendix (pp. 218-219) wherein the Jesus-as-Michael identification is defended. Uriah had me read the text of that section, so I'll give it here:<br /><blockquote><p>THE spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in he letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah's rulership and fighting God's enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name--"Who Is Like God?" But who is Michael?</p><p>At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Genesis+49%3A1-2">Genesis 49:1, 2</a>; <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+10%3A2">Matthew 10:2</a>) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us consider Scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion.</p><p><strong><em>Archangel.</em></strong> God's Word refers to Michael "the archangel." (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Jude+9">Jude 9</a>) This term means "chief angel." Notice that Michael is called <em>the </em>archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term "archangel" occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Thessalonians+4%3A16">1 Thessalonians 4:16</a> states: "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice." Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.</p><p><strong><em>Army Leader.</em></strong> The Bible states that "Michael and <em>his</em> angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels." (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation12%3A7">Revelation 12:7</a>) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+19%3A14-16">Revelation 19:14-16</a>) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions "the Lord Jesus" and "his powerful angels." (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=2+Thessalonians+1%3A7">2 Thessalonians 1:7</a>; <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+16%3A27">Matthew 16:27</a>; <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+24%3A31">24:31</a>; <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+3%3A22">1 Peter 3:22</a>) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and "his angels" and Jesus and "his angels." (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+13%3A41">Matthew 13:41</a>) Since God's Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven--one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus--it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.</p></blockquote>As should be fairly evident, their case for Jesus-as-Michael is vastly weaker than the biblical case for the full deity of Christ. If I may provide a few other brief comments, intertestamental literature clearly and unambiguously allows for multiple archangels, and considering the infrequency of the term in the New Testament, their assumptions are clearly unwarranted. (Admittedly, others hold to the one-archangel view, including Billy Graham, so Jehovah's Witnesses aren't alone on that score.) The arguments they have are rather scanty. Talk of "the archangel" doesn't inherently require just one; in certain contexts, I could speak of "the senator", despite the plurality of senators. For that matter, some would see the "an archangel" of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 as pointing to a greater possible number of archangels. The "his angels" argument, while interesting, assumes that if Michael and Jesus are distinct and both command angelic armies, these armies must be distinct; it seems equally possible to suppose that Michael is an angelic commander subordinate to Christ. (And even if Michael is Jesus, this is in no way obviously incompatible with the deity of Christ; or, at least, Seventh-Day Adventists and others don't seem to think so.)<br /><br />At any rate, paragraphs 6 through 11 were the last six we got through, and they chiefly dealt with 'signs of the end'. Things like war, pestilence, earthquake activity, famine, and immorality. The basic strategy was this: Jesus talked about various conditions; those conditions are in evidence today; therefore THE END IS NEAR!!!!!!! ...Of course, I would note that this is wrongly argued. It forces Jesus' words into the minds of contemporary readers without considering the setting in which he said them and what he might have meant in so saying. In short, it is thoroughly eisegetical. Likewise, it betrays a very limited historical consciousness on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses, I think. True, many of the calamities of which Jesus spoke are present in our lives, but they routinely use just the past century and a half or so as a benchmark by which to measure them. That's patently insufficient. Rather, even on a futurist view, one should look at all of human history to the extent that one can. Also, what never seems to cross their minds is the notion that, even if these elements are present in severe ways in the present, it might be exponentially more so in, say, six more generations. Without the erroneous chronology that yields 1914 as the basis for their measurements, everything in their eschatological scenario crumbles.<br /><br />Of interest is one little conversation snippet that transpired after Shem got severely tongue-tied while reading paragraphs 6 and 7:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> "How are Jesus' words about wars and food shortages being fulfilled today?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Well, the circumstances of today can certainly be described using Jesus's words. All of those things are very true today. There are food shortages, there are nation rising up against nation, kingdom against kingdom... You've got plenty of warfare and famine in the present age.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay... How do you think we can have famine and deaths from hunger in a world where we also pay some farmers not to grow crops?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Because we're insane.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> That's close! Close enough. [<em>laughs</em>] Okay.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> It's amazing, the terrible way we distribute food in today's world.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Mmhmm. Yep.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Even when we try to pull off relief efforts and ship tons of food over to the places that most need it, in many of those places tyrannical dictators block the food shipments because they're using famine as a way to control their own people.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Absolutely. And supplement the military.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Lemme change the question a little bit, I wanna ask you this personally.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Do you believe Jesus' words about wars and food shortages are being fulfilled today?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I believe that his specific meaning was for-- he was describing specifically the circumstances that would be leading up to certain events in the past. I think that he was actually referring to circumstances that are already past, even though many of those same situations are also the case today.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Do you personally believe that a prophecy can have a minor and a major fulfillment?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> It can.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay.</p></blockquote>I quote the first part mostly so I can have a good reason to link to the sites of charities like <a href="http://www.worldvision.org/">WorldVision</a>, <a href="http://www.stophungernow.org/">Stop Hunger Now</a>, and the <a href="http://www.faminerelieffoundation.com/">Famine Relief Foundation</a>. The second part gives me a chance to point readers to the second appendix, "<a href="http://www.preteristsite.com/plain/warrenend.html#appendixb">Excursus Typology</a>", of my friend's commentary on the Olivet Discourse. I think it's a quite good treatment of the subject of multiple fulfillment from a preterist perspective. And that, I think, is also a good note on which to end this account of my thirtieth meeting with Jehovah's Witnesses. The next one will be a week from today.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-34596636543225749202010-01-08T11:30:00.077-05:002010-07-08T08:23:19.965-04:00Books Read, 2007 to PresentI figure this is a decent place to keep a record of the books I read. I have a file on my own computer where I do it, but there's nowhere online where I have the exact same list, all in one place and in a single posting. So, since the start of the year 2007 and in the order in which I finished them, I've read:<br /><ol><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Social-World-Ancient-Israel-1250-587/dp/1565639480/">Social World of Ancient Israel: 1250-587 B.C.E.</a></em> by Victor H. Matthews and Don C. Benjamin</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Eyewitnesses-Gospels-Eyewitness-Testimony/dp/0802863906/">Jesus and the Eyewitnesses: The Gospels as Eyewitness Testimony</a></em> by Richard Bauckham</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Kalam-Cosmological-Argument-William-Craig/dp/157910438X/">The Kalam Cosmological Argument</a></em> by William Lane Craig</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Four-Views-Hell-William-Crockett/dp/0310212685/">Four Views on Hell</a></em>, ed. William Crockett</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Night-Soul-Masterpiece-Literature/dp/0385029306/">Dark Night of the Soul</a></em> by St. John of the Cross and trans. E. Allison Peers</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Muhammad-Biography-Prophet-Karen-Armstrong/dp/0062508865/">Muhammad: A Biography of the Prophet</a></em> by Karen Armstrong</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Hegels-Philosophy-Reality-Freedom-European/dp/0521844843/">Hegel's Philosophy of Reality, Freedom, and God</a></em> by Robert M. Wallace</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Approaching-Quran-Revelations-MIchael-Sells/dp/1883991692/">Approaching the Qur'an: The Early Revelations</a></em> by Michael Sells</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/After-Death-God-Insurrections-Critical/dp/0231141254/">After the Death of God</a></em>, ed. Jeffrey W. Robbins</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Straight-Path-Updated-Epilogue/dp/0195182669/">Islam: The Straight Path</a></em> by John Esposito</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Mystical-Dimensions-Islam-Annemarie-Schimmel/dp/0807812714/">Mystical Dimensions of Islam</a></em> by Annemarie Schimmel</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Plotinus-Representative-Treatises-Enneads/dp/0915144107/">The Essential Plotinus</a></em>, ed. and trans. Elmer O'Brien</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/God-Near-Us-Eucharist-Heart/dp/0898709628/">God Is Near Us: The Eucharist, the Heart of Life</a></em> by Joseph Ratzinger</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Gods-Closer-21st-Century-Mormonism/dp/0736913556/">Becoming Gods: A Closer Look at 21st-Century Mormonism</a></em> by Richard Abanes</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Theism-Atheism-Cosmology-Clarendon-Paperbacks/dp/019826383X/">Theism, Atheism, and Big Bang Cosmology</a></em> by William Lane Craig and Quentin Smith</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Old-Testament-Parallels-Stories-Ancient/dp/0809144352/">Old Testament Parallels: Laws and Stories from the Ancient Near East</a></em> by Victor H. Matthews and Don C. Benjamin</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Next-Christendom-Coming-Global-Christianity/dp/019518307X/">The Next Christendom: The Coming of Global Christianity</a></em> by Philip Jenkins</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Next-Christendom-Coming-Global-Christianity/dp/019518307X/">Biblical Exegesis in the Apostolic Period</a></em> by Richard N. Longenecker</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Next-Christendom-Coming-Global-Christianity/dp/019518307X/">Blog: Understanding the Information Revolution That's Changing Your World</a></em> by Hugh Hewitt</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Christians-Romans-Saw-Them/dp/0300098391/">The Christians as the Romans Saw Them</a></em> by Robert Louis Wilken</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Fiction-Biblical-Consideration-Behind-Theology/dp/0785266429/">End Times Fiction: A Biblical Consideration of the Left Behind Theology</a></em> by Gary DeMar</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Shades-Sheol-Death-Afterlife-Testament/dp/0830826874/">Shades of Sheol: Death and Afterlife in the Old Testament</a></em> by Philip Johnston</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Social-Science-Commentary-Letters-Bruce-Malina/dp/0800636406/">Social-Science Commentary on the Letters of Paul</a></em> by Bruce J. Malina and John J. Pilch</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Reconceptualising-Conversion-Mediterranean-Zeitschrift-Neutestamentliche/dp/3110182653/">Reconceptualising Conversion: Patronage, Loyalty, and Conversion in the Religions of the Ancient Mediterranean</a></em> by Zeba A. Crook</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Time-Eternity-Exploring-Gods-Relationship/dp/1581342411/">Time and Eternity: Exploring God's Relationship to Time</a></em> by William Lane Craig</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Why-Rejected-Christianity-Apologist-Explains/dp/1412076811/">Why I Rejected Christianity: A Former Apologist Explains</a></em> by John W. Loftus</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Only-Wise-God-Compatibility-Foreknowledge/dp/1579103162/">The Only Wise God: The Compatibility of Divine Foreknowledge and Human Freedom</a></em> by William Lane Craig</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Knocking-Heavens-Door-Testament-Petitionary/dp/080102689X/">Knocking on Heaven's Door: A New Testament Theology of Petitionary Prayer</a></em> by David Crump</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Eastern-Relating-Testament-Supplement/dp/0691035032/">Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament, with Supplement</a></em>, ed. James B. Pritchard</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Body-Soul-Life-Everlasting-Monism-Dualism/dp/0802846009/">Body, Soul, and Life Everlasting: Biblical Anthropology and the Monism-Dualism Debate</a></em> by John W. Cooper</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Impossible-Faith-James-Patrick-Holding/dp/1602660840/">The Impossible Faith: Why Christianity Succeeded When It Should Have Failed</a></em> by James Patrick Holding</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Tenseless-Theory-Time-Critical-Examination/dp/0792366352/">The Tenseless Theory of Time: A Critical Examination</a></em> by William Lane Craig</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Mysticism-Evangelical-Option-Winfried-Corduan/dp/1606088394/">Mysticism: An Evangelical Option?</a></em> by Winfried Corduan</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Trial-Book-Defense-Christianity/dp/0785245987/">Paul on Trial: The Book of Acts as a Defense of Christianity</a></em> by Paul Mauck</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/God-Time-Gregory-E-Ganssle/dp/0830815511/">God and Time: Four Views</a></em>, ed. Greg Ganssle</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Mysteries-Sourcebook-Sacred-Texts/dp/081221692X/">The Ancient Mysteries: A Sourcebook of Sacred Texts</a></em>, ed. Marvin W. Meyer</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Natural-Theology-Post-humean-Assessment/dp/0830827676/">In Defense of Natural Theology: A Post-Humean Assessment</a></em>, eds. James F. Sennett and Douglas Groothuis</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Seek-Welfare-City-First-Century-Graeco-Roman/dp/0802840914/">Seek the Welfare of the City: Christians as Benefactors and Citizens</a></em> by Bruce W. Winter</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Crucifixion-Ancient-World-Message-Facets/dp/080061268X/">Crucifixion in the Ancient World and the Folly of the Message of the Cross</a></em> by Martin Hengel</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Resurrection-Christian-Origins-Question-Vol/dp/0800626796/">The Resurrection of the Son of God</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Cosmological-Argument-Plato-Leibniz-William/dp/1579107877/">The Cosmological Argument from Plato to Leibniz</a></em> by William Lane Craig</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Plowshares-Pruning-Hooks-Rethinking-Apocalyptic/dp/083082653X/">Plowshares and Pruning Hooks: Rethinking the Language of Biblical Prophecy and Apocalyptic</a></em> by D. Brent Sandy</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Gospels-All-Christians-Rethinking-Audiences/dp/0802844448/">The Gospels for All Christians: Rethinking the Gospel Audiences</a></em>, ed. Richard Bauckham</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Toward-Old-Testament-Ethics-Studies/dp/0310371112/">Toward Old Testament Ethics</a></em> by Walter C. Kaiser, Jr.</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/God-Design-Teleological-Argument-Science/dp/0415263433/">God and Design: The Teleological Argument and Modern Science</a></em>, ed. Neil A. Manson</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Near-Eastern-Thought-Testament/dp/0801027500/">Ancient Near Eastern Thought and the Old Testament: Introducing the Conceptual World of the Hebrew Bible</a></em> by John H. Walton</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Existence-God-Richard-Swinburne/dp/0199271682/">The Existence of God</a></em> by Richard Swinburne</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Households-Holiness-Religious-Culture-Israelite/dp/0800637313/">Households and Holiness: The Religious Culture of Israelite Women</a></em> by Carol L. Meyers</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Sage-Ben-Witherington-III/dp/0800632419/">Jesus the Sage: The Pilgrimage of Wisdom</a></em> by Ben Witherington III</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Cosmological-Argument-Studies-Analytic-Philosophy/dp/1591024730/">The Kalam Cosmological Argument for God</a></em> by Mark R. Nowacki</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Slaves-Women-Homosexuals-Exploring-Hermeneutics/dp/0830815619/">Slaves, Women, and Homosexuals: Exploring the Hermeneutics of Cultural Analysis</a></em> by William Webb</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Stories-Ancient-Canaan-Michael-Coogan/dp/0664241840/">Stories from Ancient Canaan</a></em>, ed. Michael Coogan</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Agents-Under-Materialism-Rationality-Science/dp/0742534049/">Agents Under Fire: Materialism and the Rationality of Science</a></em> by Angus Menuge</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Art-War-Barnes-Noble-Classics/dp/1593081723/">The Art of War</a></em> by Sun-Tzu</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Seer-Progress-Ben-Witherington/dp/156563344X/">Jesus the Seer: The Progress of Prophecy</a></em> by Ben Witherington III</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Walking-East-West-God-Shadows/dp/0310268745/">Walking from East to West: God in the Shadows</a></em> by Ravi Zacharias</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/All-Gods-Worth-Worship-Calling/dp/0802843190/">For All God's Worth: True Worship and the Calling of the Church</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Greco-Roman-World-New-Testament-Era/dp/0830815899/">The Greco-Roman World of the New Testament Era: Exploring the Background of Early Christianity</a></em> by James S. Jeffers</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Free-Will-Oxford-Readings-Philosophy/dp/019925494X/">Free Will</a></em>, ed. Gary Watson</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Preaching-Development-Delivery-Expository/dp/0801022622/">Biblical Preaching: The Development and Delivery of Expository Messages</a></em> by Haddon W. Robinson</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Our-Father-Abraham-Jewish-Christian/dp/0802804233/">Our Father Abraham: Jewish Roots of the Christian Faith</a></em> by Marvin Wilson</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Resurrection-God-Incarnate-Richard-Swinburne/dp/0199257469/">The Resurrection of God Incarnate</a></em> by Richard Swinburne</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/God-between-Christian-Atheist-Counterpoint/dp/0195166000/">God?: A Debate Between a Christian and an Atheist</a></em> by William Lane Craig and Walter Sinnott-Armstrong</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Render-God-Jerome-H-Neyrey/dp/0800636481/">Render to God: New Testament Understandings of the Divine</a></em> by Jerome H. Neyrey</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Under-Fire-Scholarship-Historical/dp/0310211395/">Jesus Under Fire: Modern Scholarship Reinvents the Historical Jesus</a></em>, eds. Michael J. Wilkins and James Porter Moreland</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Nature-Necessity-Clarendon-Library-Philosophy/dp/0198244142/">The Nature of Necessity</a></em> by Alvin Plantinga</li><li><em>Customs and Etiquette in China</em></li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Testament-People-Christian-Origins-Question/dp/0800626818/">The New Testament and the People of God</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Atheist-Debaters-Handbook-B-Johnson/dp/0879752106/">The Atheist Debater's Handbook</a></em> by B. C. Johnson</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Following-Jesus-Wright-N-T/dp/0802841325">Following Jesus: Biblical Reflections on Discipleship</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Christology-Early-Jewish-Christianity/dp/1573830291/">The Christology of Early Jewish Christianity</a></em> by Richard N. Longenecker</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/James-Testament-Readings-Richard-Bauckham/dp/0415103703/">James: Wisdom of James, Disciple of Jesus the Sage</a></em> by Richard Bauckham</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Divine-Providence-Molinist-Philosophy-Religion/dp/0801473365/">Divine Providence: The Molinist Account</a></em> by Thomas P. Flint</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Empty-Tomb-Jesus-Beyond-Grave/dp/159102286X/">The Empty Tomb: Jesus Beyond the Grave</a></em>, eds. Robert M. Price and Jeffrey Jay Lowder</li><li><em><a href="http://www.triapologia.com/hays/ThisJoyfulEastertide.pdf">This Joyful Eastertide: A Critical Review of <u>The Empty Tomb</u></a></em> by Steve Hays</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-World-Insights-Anthropology/dp/0664222951/">The New Testament World: Insights from Cultural Anthropology</a></em> by Bruce J. Malina</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-World-Insights-Anthropology/dp/0664222951/">The Three Christs of Ypsilanti: A Narrative Study of Three Lost Men</a></em> by Milton Rokeach</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Simply-Christian-Christianity-Makes-Sense/dp/0061920622/">Simply Christian: Why Christianity Makes Sense</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Logic-God-Incarnate-Thomas-Morris/dp/1579106293/">The Logic of God Incarnate</a></em> by Thomas V. Morris</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Atonement-Origins-Doctrine-New-Testament/dp/155635231X/">The Atonement: The Origins of the Doctrine in the New Testament</a></em> by Martin Hengel</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Testimony-Beloved-Disciple-Narrative-Theology/dp/080103485X/">The Testimony of the Beloved Disciple: Narrative, History, and Theology in the Gospel of John</a></em> by Richard Bauckham</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Testimony-Beloved-Disciple-Narrative-Theology/dp/080103485X/">Critiques of God: Making the Case Against Belief in God</a></em>, ed. Peter Angeles</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Bacchae-Euripides/dp/1420926705/">The Bacchae</a></em> by Euripides</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Victory-Christian-Origins-Question/dp/0800626826/">Jesus and the Victory of God</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Cosmology-Philosophy-John-Leslie/dp/1573922501/">Modern Cosmology and Philosophy</a></em>, ed. John Leslie</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Battles-Bible-Softbound-Greenhill-Military-Paperback/dp/185367477X/">Battles of the Bible: A Military History of Ancient Israel</a></em> by Chaim Herzog and Mordechai Gichon</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Temporality-Ancient-World-Ralph-Rosen/dp/1931707677/">Time and Temporality in the Ancient World</a></em>, ed. Ralph M. Rosen</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Origins-Mithraic-Mysteries-Cosmology-Salvation/dp/0195067886/">The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries: Cosmology and Salvation in the Ancient World</a></em> by David Ulansey</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Conspiracy-Greatest-Story-Ever/dp/0932813747/">The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold</a></em> by 'Acharya S' (Dorothy M. Murdock)</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Who-Was-Jesus-N-Wright/dp/0802806945/">Who Was Jesus?</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Future-Presentism-Craig-Bourne/dp/0199568219/">A Future for Presentism</a></em> by Craig Bourne</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/37-Firmicus-Maternus-Religions-Christian/dp/0809100398/">Firmicus Maternus: The Error of the Pagan Religions</a></em> by Julius Firmicus Maternus and trans. Clarence A. Forbes</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Restoration-Israel-Critical-Assessment/dp/0830815872/">Jesus and the Restoration of Israel: A Critical Assessment of N. T. Wright's <u>Jesus and the Victory of God</u></a></em>, ed. Carey Newman</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Pauline-Christology-Exegetical-Theological-Gordon-Fee/dp/1598560352/">Pauline Christology: An Exegetical-Theological Study</a></em> by Gordon D. Fee</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/God-Other-Minds-Justification-Paperbacks/dp/0801497353/">God and Other Minds: A Study of the Rational Justification of Belief in God</a></em> by Alvin Plantinga</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Making-Meal-Rethinking-Theology-Supper/dp/1602581908/">Making a Meal of It: Rethinking the Theology of the Lord's Supper</a></em> by Ben Witherington III</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Last-Word-Scripture-Authority-God-Getting/dp/0060872616/">The Last Word: Scripture and the Authority of God--Getting Beyond the Bible Wars</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Eusebius-Church-History/dp/082543307X/">Ecclesiastical History</a></em> by Eusebius of Caesarea and trans. Paul L. Maier</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Divinity-Humanity-Incarnation-Reconsidered-Theology/dp/052169535X/">Divinity and Humanity: The Incarnation Reconsidered</a></em> by Oliver D. Crisp</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Challenge-Jesus-Rediscovering-Who-Was/dp/0830822003/">The Challenge of Jesus: Rediscovering Who Jesus Was and Is</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Desert-Fathers-Sayings-Christian-Classics/dp/0140447318/">The Desert Fathers: Sayings of the Early Christian Monks</a></em>, ed. Benedicta Ward</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Desert-Fathers-Sayings-Christian-Classics/dp/0140447318/">The Miracle of Theism: Arguments For and Against Belief in God</a></em> by J. L. Mackie</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Questioning-Multidimensional-Critique-Mark-Goodacre/dp/0830827692/">Questioning Q: A Multidimensional Critique</a></em>, eds. Mark Goodacre and Nicholas Perrin</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Perspective-N-T-Wright/dp/0800663578/">Paul: In Fresh Perspective</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Dionysos-Slain-Professor-Marcel-DEtienne/dp/0801822106/">Dionysos Slain</a></em> by Marcel Detienne</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Cybele-Attis-Maarten-J-Vermaseren/dp/0500250545/">Cybele and Attis: The Myth and the Cult</a></em> by Maarten J. Vermaseren</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Suns-God-Krishna-Buddha-Unveiled/dp/1931882312/">Sons of God: Krishna, Buddha, and Christ</a></em> by 'Acharya S' (Dorothy M. Murdock)</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Saturnalia-Trans-Percival-Vaughan-Davies/dp/B000N3LQV6/">Saturnalia</a></em> by Macrobius</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Word-That-Redescribes-World-Discipleship/dp/080063814X/">The Word That Redescribes the World: The Bible and Discipleship</a></em> by Walter Brueggemann</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Climax-Covenant-Christ-Pauline-Theology/dp/056729594X/">The Climax of the Covenant: Christ and the Law in Pauline Theology</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Climax-Covenant-Christ-Pauline-Theology/dp/056729594X/">Resurrection, Immortality, and Eternal Life in Intertestamental Judaism and Early Christianity</a></em> by George F. Nickelsburg</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Christianity-Michael-Martin/dp/1566390818/">The Case Against Christianity</a></em> by Michael Martin</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Johns-Wisdom-Commentary-Fourth-Gospel/dp/066425621X/">John's Wisdom: A Commentary on the Fourth Gospel</a></em> by Ben Witherington III</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Religious-Literacy-American-Know-Doesnt/dp/0060859520/">Religious Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know--And Doesn't</a></em> by Stephen Prothero</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Scrolls-English-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140449523/">The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English</a></em>, trans. Geza Vermes</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Buddhist-Tradition-India-China-Japan/dp/0394716965/">The Buddhist Tradition in India, China, and Japan</a></em>, ed. William Theodore de Bary</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Everyone-Romans-Part-One/dp/0664227996/">Paul for Everyone: Romans, Part One</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Thus-Spoke-Zarathustra-Everyone-Classics/dp/0199537097/">Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None</a></em> by Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Everyone-Chapters-EVERYONE-Paperback/dp/B002VK0552/">Paul for Everyone: Romans, Part Two</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Paul-First-Century-Letter-Writing-Secretaries/dp/0830827889/">Paul and First-Century Letter Writing: Secretaries, Composition and Collection</a></em> by E. Randolph Richards</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Why-You-Should-Believe-Trinity/dp/B0017RXNWM/">Why You Should Believe in the Trinity: An Answer to Jehovah's Witnesses</a></em> by Robert M. Bowman, Jr.</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Rereading-Romans-Justice-Jews-Gentiles/dp/0300070683/">A Rereading of Romans: Justice, Jews, and Gentiles</a></em> by Stanley K. Stowers</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Everything-Hardcover/dp/B002C4ZU6Q/">God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything</a></em> by Christopher Hitchens</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Story-Romans-Katherine-Grieb/dp/066422525X/">The Story of Romans: A Narrative Defense of God's Righteousness</a></em> by A. Katherine Grieb</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Church-New-Timothy-Ware/dp/0140146563/">The Orthodox Church</a></em> by Timothy Ware</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Christ-Mythology-rudolf-bultmann/dp/B000NSGZRQ/">Jesus Christ and Mythology</a></em> by Rudolf Bultmann</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Christ-Mythology-rudolf-bultmann/dp/B000NSGZRQ/">Velvet Elvis: Repainting the Christian Faith</a></em> by Rob Bell</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Evangelicalism-America-Bruce-L-Shelley/dp/B0006BR1I2/">Evangelicalism in America</a></em> by Bruce Shelley</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Shattering-Christ-James-Patrick-Holding/dp/1606472712/">Shattering the Christ Myth: Did Jesus Not Exist?</a></em>, ed. James Patrick Holding</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Shattering-Christ-James-Patrick-Holding/dp/1606472712/">Conflict and Identity in Romans</a></em> by Philip F. Esler</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Surprised-Hope-Rethinking-Resurrection-Mission/dp/0061551821/">Surprised by Hope: Rethinking Heaven, the Resurrection, and the Mission of the Church</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Romans-Full-Circle-Interpretation-Westminster/dp/0664228739/">Romans in Full Circle: A History of Interpretation</a></em> by Mark Reasoner</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Romans-Full-Circle-Interpretation-Westminster/dp/0664228739/">An Anthology of Atheism and Rationalism</a></em>, ed. Gordon Stein</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Jehovahs-Witnesses-Jesus-Christ-Gospel/dp/0801009553/">Jehovah's Witnesses, Jesus Christ, and the Gospel of John</a></em> by Robert M. Bowman, Jr.</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Variety-American-Evangelicalism-Donald-Dayton/dp/1572331585/">The Variety of American Evangelicalism</a></em>, ed. Donald Dayton</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Central-Message-New-Testament/dp/0800616189/">The Central Message of the New Testament</a></em> by Joachim Jeremias</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/We-Left-Jehovahs-Witnesses-Testimonies/dp/0875523072/">We Left Jehovah's Witnesses: Personal Testimonies</a></em>, ed. Edmond C. Gruss</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Da-Vinci-Cod-Fishy-Parody/dp/0060848073/">The Da Vinci Cod: A Fishy Parody</a></em> by 'Don Brine' (Adam Roberts)</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Give-God-Glory-Cultural-Perspective/dp/0802840159/">Give God the Glory: Ancient Prayer and Worship in Cultural Perspective</a></em> by Jerome H. Neyrey</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/HERESIES-EXPOSED-Wm-C-Irvine/dp/B000G9UJP6/">Heresies Exposed</a></em> by William C. Irvine</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Christus-Victor-Historical-Study-Atonement/dp/B0028Q5QFI/">Christus Victor: An Historical Study of the Three Main Types of the Idea of Atonement</a></em> by Gustaf Aulen</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Pauls-Letter-Romans-Socio-Rhetorical-Commentary/dp/0802845045/">Paul's Letter to the Romans: A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary</a></em> by Ben Witherington III</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Christus-Victor-Historical-Study-Atonement/dp/B0028Q5QFI/">The Sophist</a></em> by Plato and trans. Eva Braun</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/God-Multiverse-Everything-Cosmology-Argument/dp/0754651169/">God, the Multiverse, and Everything: Modern Cosmology and the Argument from Design</a></em> by Rodney D. Holder</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Gilgamesh-English-Version-Stephen-Mitchell/dp/0743261690/">Gilgamesh: A New English Version</a></em> by Stephen Mitchell</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Word-Who-He-According-John/dp/B001BSGO0K/">The "Word" - Who is He? According to John</a></em> by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Religion-Introduction-Will-Deming/dp/0195169816/">Rethinking Religion: A Concise Introduction</a></em> by William Deming</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Diodorus-Siculus-Library-History-Classical/dp/0674993071/">The Library of History (Vol. 1)</a></em> by Diodorus Siculus</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Diodorus-Siculus-Library-2-35-4-58-Classical/dp/0674993349/">The Library of History (Vol. 2)</a></em> by Diodorus Siculus</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Role-Theology-Bias-Bible-Translation/dp/0965981444/">The Role of Theology and Bias in Bible Translation, with a Special Look at the New World Translation of Jehovah's Witnesses</a></em> by Rolf Furuli</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Mahabharata-Shortened-Modern-Version-Indian/dp/0226568229/">The Mahabharata: A Shortened Modern Prose Version of the Indian Epic</a></em> by R. K. Narayan</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Diodorus-Siculus-Library-History-Classical/dp/0674993756/">The Library of History (Vol. 3)</a></em> by Diodorus Siculus</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Mahabharata-Shortened-Modern-Version-Indian/dp/0226568229/">Universes</a></em> by John Leslie</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/HARP-GOD-Conclusive-Millions-Living/dp/B000PRTV4O/">The Harp of God: Proof Conclusive That Millions Now Living Will Never Die</a></em> by Joseph F. Rutherford</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Cosmic-Jackpot-Universe-Just-Right/dp/0618592261/">Cosmic Jackpot: Why Our Universe is Just Right for Life</a></em> by Paul Davies</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Life-Pi-Yann-Martel/dp/0156027321/">The Life of Pi: A Novel</a></em> by Yann Martel</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-cosmogony-Franciscus-Bernardus-Jacobus/dp/0706913701/">Ancient Indian Cosmogony</a></em> by F. B. J. 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Lynch</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Theories-Religion-Reader-Seth-Kunin/dp/081353965X/">Theories of Religion: A Reader</a></em>, ed. Seth Daniel Kunin</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Christology-Fathers-Library-Christian-Classics/dp/0664241522/">Christology of the Later Fathers</a></em>, ed. Edward Hardy</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Evidence-Jesus-R-T-France/dp/1573833703/">The Evidence for Jesus</a></em> by R. T. France</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Storytellers-Saints-Scoundrels-Contemporary-Ethnography/dp/081221269X/">Storytellers, Saints, and Scoundrels: Folk Narrative in Hindu Religious Teaching</a></em> by Kirin Narayan</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/PAUL-AMONG-JEWS-GENTILES-Essays/dp/B000Q1PQ6Q/">Paul Among Jews and Gentiles, and Other Essays</a></em> by Krister Stendahl</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Quarks-Leptons-Bang-Jonathan-Allday/dp/0750308060/">Quarks, Leptons, and the Big Bang</a></em> by Jonathan Allday</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Concept-God-Ronald-H-Nash/dp/0310451418/">The Concept of God: An Exploration of Contemporary Difficulties with the Attributes of God</a></em> by Ronald H. 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Selva Raj and Corinne Dempsey</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Revelation-Four-Views-Parallel-Commentary/dp/0840721285/">Revelation: Four Views: A Parallel Commentary</a></em> by Steve Gregg</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Christians-India-Rowena-Robinson/dp/0761998225/">Christians of India</a></em> by Rowena Robinson</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Iglesia-Kristo-Christology-ecclesiology-Cardinal/dp/B0007BYV5C/">The Iglesia ni Kristo: Its Christology and Ecclesiology</a></em> by Fernando G. 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Miguel Leon-Portilla and Earl Shorris</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Essence-Religion-Great-Books-Philosophy/dp/1591022134/">The Essence of Religion</a></em> by Ludwig Feuerbach</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/American-Islam-Growing-Muslim-America/dp/0756784239/">American Islam: Growing Up Muslim in America</a></em> by Richard Wormser</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Crisis-Hank-Hanegraaff/dp/0890819769/">Christianity in Crisis</a></em> by Hank Hanegraaff</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Re-Entry-Striking-Parallels-Between-Christs/dp/B002PAYJLY/">Re-entry: Striking Parallels Between Today's News Events and Christ's Second Coming</a></em> by John Wesley White</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Free-Choice-Saint-Augustine-Hippo/dp/0872201880/">On the Free Choice of the Will</a></em> by Augustine of Hippo and trans. 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Thomas Dunlap</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Glory-God-Monotheism-Reformations-Witch-Hunts/dp/0691119503/">For the Glory of God: How Monotheism Led to Reformations, Science, Witch-Hunts, and the End of Slavery</a></em> by Rodney Stark</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Systematic-Theology-vol-Existence-Christ/dp/0226803384/">Systematic Theology (Vol. 2)</a></em> by Paul Tillich</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Reason-Richard-Swinburne/dp/B000OLEKCY/">Faith and Reason</a></em> by Richard Swinburne</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Voices-Turtledoves-Sacred-World-Ephrata/dp/3525558279/">Voices of the Turtledoves: The Sacred World of Ephrata</a></em> by Jeff Bach</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Generous-Orthodoxy-conservative-contemplative-fundamentalist/dp/0310258030/">A Generous Orthodoxy</a></em> by Brian McLaren</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Conscience-Raymond-Franz/dp/0914675230/">Crisis of Conscience</a></em> by Raymond Franz</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Reasonable-Faith-Christian-Truth-Apologetics/dp/1433501155/">Reasonable Faith: Christian Truth and Apologetics</a></em> by William Lane Craig</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Karamazov-Fyodor-Dostoyevsky/dp/0451530608/">The Brothers Karamazov</a></em> by Fyodor Dostoyevsky and trans. Constance Garrett</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/History-Apologetics-Robert-Cardinal-Dulles/dp/0898709334/">A History of Apologetics</a></em> by Avery Robert Dulles</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/After-You-Believe-Christian-Character/dp/0061730556/">After You Believe: Why Christian Character Matters</a></em> by N. T. Wright</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-Apocrypha-Vol-Apocalypses/dp/0664227228/">New Testament Apocrypha (Vol. 2)</a></em>, ed. Wilhelm Schneemelcher</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/End-Faith-Religion-Terror-Future/dp/0393327655/">The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason</a></em> by Sam Harris</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Unimaginable-Mathematics-Borges-Library-Babel/dp/0195334574/">The Unimaginable Mathematics of Borges' Library of Babel</a></em> by William Goldbloom Bloch</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Oxford-History-Christian-Worship/dp/0195138864/">The Oxford History of Christian Worship</a></em>, eds. Geoffrey Wainwright and Karen B. Westerfield Tucker</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Cities-God-Christianity-Movement-Conquered/dp/0060858427/">Cities of God: The Real Story of How Christianity Became an Urban Movement and Conquered Rome</a></em> by Rodney Stark</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/New-Anti-Catholicism-Last-Acceptable-Prejudice/dp/0195154800/">The New Anti-Catholicism: The Last Acceptable Prejudice</a></em> by Philip Jenkins</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Language-God-Scientist-Presents-Evidence/dp/0743286391/">The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief</a></em> by Francis S. Collins</li><li><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/What-Evolution-Ernst-Mayr/dp/0465044263/">What Evolution Is</a></em> by Ernst Mayr</li></ol>[Last Updated - 8 July 2010]JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-51490075621812212242010-01-02T19:13:00.001-05:002010-01-08T16:16:16.258-05:00JW Study Meeting #29As last week, so with today, Uriah and Shem arrived at 1:00 PM. Sarah and I - she's been visiting for the week - greeted them as they entered. We turned off a Beatles album that my mother had been playing, and Uriah noted that with the music and the burning incense, she was dating herself. He then turned to me and inquired as to my own taste in music, so I explained that my preferences generally range over heavy metal and Hebrew chants. Naturally, he gave me a rather puzzled look, though I think he was more surprised by the latter than the former. I also mentioned, in the course of the subsequent conversation, that my favorite book of the Bible is Lamentations, at which point Uriah turned to my mother and asked what on earth had happened to me as a child. Naturally, she blamed my grandmother for my... eccentricity... and Uriah noted that Zibiah blames her mother for a lot of things, too. Shem replied by saying, "If you met my grandmother, you'd know why." He then made a few comments about "the <em>Deliverance</em> branch" of his family.<br /><br />After talking about cameras for a while, Uriah handed Sarah the latest issues of <em>The Watchtower</em> (featuring the article "Alcohol: What Is God's View?") and <em>Awake!</em> (featuring the article "Are You Working Too Hard?"); she wisely declined to comment on which I "need more". Uriah also handed me a Post-It Note with a reference to a <em>Watchtower</em> article he thought would be of use to me with respect to <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/12/jw-study-meeting-28.html">last week's discussion</a>; the reference is to the "Questions from Readers" section of the 1 September 2004 issue, wherein the question is: "Why do Jehovah's Witnesses take the number 144,000 mentioned in the book of Revelation literally and not symbolically?" Looking over it now, it's rather unconvincing and relies too heavily on other highly questionable JW beliefs. Turning then to the matter of our study:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> So... I don't think you're gonna have any sticky spots in this one, unless I've missed something.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> You may have.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> I, I might have, yeah.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I think we-- we'll have some... interesting discussions, I think.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> So I think first what I'd like to do, is just run through it, uh, answer the questions, not necessarily with what I personally think but to make sure that I know what it's saying--</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> And then after we get through the chapter, we can go back and revisit the issues to--</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Good.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Decide where we have agreements and disagreements.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> I will try to find more references on those and get those to you next week, so we'll keep a flow going. Good. Okay, [Shem], would you like to start?</p><p><strong>Shem:</strong> Sure. "The Bible has much to say about that final war between God's Kingdom and the governments of this world. Fot example, it teaches that as the end approaches, wicked spirits will spread lies to deceive '<span style="color:#009900;">the kings of the entire inhabited earth.</span>' For what purpose? '<span style="color:#009900;">To gather them [the kings] together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.</span>' The kings of the earth will be gathered together to '<span style="color:#009900;">the place that is called in Hebrew Har-Magedon.</span>' [(<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+16%3A14">Revelation 16:14</a>, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+16%3A16">16</a>)] Because of what is said in those two verses, the final conflict between human governments and God's Kingdom is called the battle of Har-Magedon, or Armageddon."</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. "What is the name of the final war between God's Kingdom and the governments of this world?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> That would be the Battle of Armageddon, as [. . .] that paragraph.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> No, no difficulties there.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I would... put some different interpretations on some things, but we'll revisit that.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Alright. But I didn't think you had a problem with the answer to the question, the name of the battle.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> That's pretty basic, right there, yeah.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> [<em>laughs</em>] Okay. Alright, nineteen and twenty, sir?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Alright.</p></blockquote>At this point, I read those paragraphs, and since it's a rather sizeable block of text, I'll refrain from transcribing it here. It first began by asking, "What will God's Kingdom achieve by means of Armageddon?", and going on to discuss God's will for the earth and our current condition.<br /><br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. "What prevents God's will from being done on earth right now?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Our rebellion and the results that come out of it. We're sinful, we-- generally as a whole, humanity does not <em>want</em> to do the will of God, and that's something that stands in the way of God's will being done through us, because God's will is for us to freely choose to do his will, and so in order for God's will to be done, those of us who are going to be rescued need to be inclined to turn our hearts back to God.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Alright, now twice I heard you say they do not want to do God's will, and both times you seemed like you put emotion into that word. Was that because it's italicized, or because you believe that?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I believe it.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Good. But, we have a president, we've had presidents who get their picture taken carrying their Bible back and forth to church; surely they will lead us down the right path, don'tcha think?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> If they actually <em>believed</em> what they were saying, then they <em>might</em>... if they were also very wise and approximated the character of Christ... Don't think we've had any of those.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. That's absolutely-- I agree with that 100%, per individual president. What about the government as a whole? How much spirituality are we gonna get from them?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Not that much. Generally, as a rule of thumb, my view of government is this: it's best when it keeps quiet, because when it tries to do things, things go wrong. Putting stuff in the government's hands generally leads to stuff getting messed up, because not only does the government generally ignore godly principles, it's also just plain incompetent.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Would you say that Solomon agreed with you? When he wrote, "<span style="color:#009900;">Man has dominated man to his injury</span>" [(<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ecclesiastes+8%3A9">Ecclesiastes 8:9</a>)].</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I'd definitely agree with that sentiment.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Yeah.... Okay, good! I knew there'd be a chunk here we agreed on. [<em>laughs</em>] Okay....</p></blockquote>Before we turned to the next paragraph, Uriah asked me for some thoughts on the picture that occupies page 83. It's a fairly typical JW depiction of images representing the various things wrong with the world, including a starving woman with her pot-bellied child, a robber accosting another man at gunpoint, a tank, a missile, and the earth in the background. The caption reads, "The casting of Satan and his demons out of heaven brought woe to the earth. Such troubles will soon end." Moving on to the next paragraph...<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay, let's go to 21.</p><p><strong>Shem:</strong> "After Armageddon, mankind will be under just one government, God's Kingdom. That Kingdom will do God's will and bring wonderful blessings. For example, it will remove Satan and his demons. [(<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+20%3A1-3">Revelation 20:1-3</a>)] The power of Jesus' sacrifice will be applied so that faithful humans will no longer get sick and die. Instead, under Kingdom rule they will be able to live forever. [(<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+22%3A1-3">Revelation 22:1-3</a>)] The earth will be made into a paradise. Thus the Kingdom will cause God's will to be done on earth and will sanctify God's name. What does this mean? It means that eventually under God's Kingdom everyone alive will honor Jehovah's name."</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. "How will the Kingdom cause God's will to be done on earth?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> The kingdom will restore and renovate the earth, for one. All of the plagues that haunt mankind and the ecosystem and all those other things are going to be eventually done away with. God has promised that all throughout the Scriptures. The kingdom will also mean that people will turn to God as the ruler, and when people turn to God, things are sure to go better, because his rule is best.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Good. Let's, ah, let's consider Revelation, chapter 20 there, ah, one through three.... And, [JB], would you read those three and tell me what you think of 'em, or tell me what out of 'em?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Alright. "<span style="color:#009900;">And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.</span>"</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. What does that tell you?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> It's talking about a time when Satan's age-old dominance over mankind would be done away with, and he would no longer have the power to stop God's message from going forth into all the world.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Good. Now, 22, one through three...</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> "<span style="color:#009900;">And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side [there were] trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees [were] for the curing of the nations. And no more will there be any curse. But the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in [the city], and his slaves will render him sacred service.</span>"</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. And you take that to mean, what?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> That's talking about the restoration of all things, when God's will is finally achieved. It's talking about the healing of all people who have turned to him, and the transformation of the earth into the paradise it was always intended to be.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay, good. Good. If you were the kind of person that believed - and that article goes along with that - that believed that mankind's just going to struggle and fight and claw in his imperfection to make the best of things until one day Armageddon comes and God destroys the earth. If you believed that, what would that tell you about these promises that you just read?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> That something's clearly wrong, because if that were the case then when are these going to be fulfilled? Where are these going to be fulfilled? If the destruction of the earth is just the last thing that happens, then where do these take place, and when? It wouldn't make any sense.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Good. Good. So you would agree with me then, I-- if I said, people who believe that the earth is going to be destroyed, are not believing biblically correct?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Right.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Good. I'll give you a hint there again - I do this once in a while - that belief alone puts you above many, many, many paid ministers that are out preaching doom and gloom. [<em>laughs</em>] Okay, "When Does God's Kingdom Act?" Now the next two paragraphs, we're gonna find out the exact date and time. [<em>laughs</em>]</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Sounds great!</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Sounds good, but it's not gonna happen. [<em>laughs</em>] Let's see, whose turn is it?</p></blockquote>It was my turn. I read the twenty-second paragraph, which argued that the kingdom had not yet come by the Ascension because not only had Jesus given his followers the Lord's Prayer, but <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+110%3A1">Psalm 110:1</a> had not been fulfilled at the Ascension, as shown in later apostolic preaching (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+2%3A32-34">Acts 2:32-34</a>; <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Hebrews+10%3A12-13">Hebrews 10:12-13</a>).<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay... "Why do we know that God's Kingdom did not come when Jesus was on earth or immediately after he was resurrected?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Well, to qualify it as the kingdom coming in its <em>fullness</em>, the fullness of the promise, we know that it didn't happen then because we know that there were still prophecies yet to be fulfilled about it in the apostolic period. They still knew that all things had not yet been put under Jesus' feet, not-- tho-- the creation had not yet been reconciled and brought into its proper submission to its Maker.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Good. How do we know that hasn't happened after he went back to heaven?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> We still see that things are not completely in subjection to their Maker, by observing the way the world around us functions and comparing it to the promises we've been given.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay! ...What do you get out of the sentence there, where "<span style="color:#009900;">Jehovah says to my Lord, 'Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet'</span>"?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> It means that, for one thing, Jesus is being exalted to the right hand of his Father. That means that he occupies an extraordinarily high position of favor. It also means that Christ's foes will be brought into subjection to him, the entire creation will be subjected to him. And finally all of creation will attain its proper balance, the full hierarchy of order in God's kingdom will be attained, and Jehovah will be acknowledged as Lord over all.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Good. Alright, then 23.</p></blockquote>Shem proceeded to read the twenty-third paragraph of the text, which asserted that the 19th century saw "sincere Bible students" finally calculate that "the waiting period would end in 1914", and that "in 1914, Christ became King and God's heavenly Kingdom began to rule", so that Satan's "short period of time" is now.<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> "When did God's Kingdom begin to rule?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Well, according to this text at least, the kingdom was-- the kingdom rule was inaugurated in the year 1914 of the Common Era.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Now, I want to point some things out about that. One is that was put in print in <em>The Watchtower</em> thirty-eight years ahead of time. Thirty-eight years is pretty good for mankind to figure something out. The second point I want to make on that is, it's not that Jehovah's Witnesses are smarter or have information that's not in the Bible that anybody else doesn't have. They were wrong about what they thought at the time. They thought in 1914, the system was coming to an end and they were going to heaven. That's not the case. So, although they had the date right, which-- Did you look at the appendix?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I've looked at it before.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay, you know what they were based on, how it's fulfilled [. . .] through. Still it doesn't mean that they had perfect vision. They didn't. They thought, this is the end of things, and they didn't even know about the other sheep until 1935. So the light was getting brighter for them even though they were anointed, they didn't have perfect vision. They didn't need it! [<em>laughs</em>] They needed to, ah-- they needed to have a, a vague idea of what God intended and be working toward that, same as you and I right now. It really doesn't matter what his timetable is; his timetable for <em>us</em> is to do our best as long as we can. Right. Okay.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Amen.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Absolutely. And to tell you the truth, I feel that from you or I wouldn't keep coming back. I think you're sincere. [Shem] doesn't, he thinks you're a jerk. [<em>laughs</em>]</p><p><strong>Shem:</strong> Thanks [...].</p><p>[<em>They try to talk over each other and end up both laughing.</em>]</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> I just made that up, you know that. [<em>laughs</em>]</p><p><strong>Shem</strong> [<em>to Uriah</em>]: You really are my brother, aren't you?</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> I like to bring him along just so he trusts me completely, and then I [...].</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I got that feeling about you.</p><p><strong>Shem:</strong> I'm a big boy, I can take it.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> You should hear what he says when you're not around.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Oh yeah.</p><p><strong>Shem:</strong> Wouldn't surprise me.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> I told him about your women problems and everything. [<em>laughs</em>]</p><p><strong>Shem:</strong> Oh that's okay. I didn't have a problem when I was in the world; it's when I became a Witness that I started having problems.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Dating with manners and spirituality.</p><p><strong>Shem:</strong> There you go.</p></blockquote>I'll skip over a bit more banter back and forth, during which Uriah asked my girlfriend how I treat her; she replied by stating, "He has his good points..." When we finally turned back to the question:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay, part B. This is a tough one, I hope you studied for this part. "What will be discussed in the next chapter?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> The next chapter is going to talk about whether we're living in the last days. So it's going to talk about reasons why we might be able to see that the end of this system of things is coming upon us and reasons to believe that the promises that God has given a long time ago are about to be fulfilled.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Is that the correct answer, or is that your belief?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> That's what the next chapter is going to talk about. I would qualify certain points of that as far as my own beliefs.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Alright, the review box.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Haven't seen one of these in a while.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> I know. It's weird. [<em>laughs</em>] "God's Kingdom is a heavenly government with Jesus Christ as King, and from among mankind, 144,000 are taken to rule with him." Ah, let's, let's read those scriptures.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+14%3A1">Revelation 14:1</a>, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+14%3A4">4</a>...</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Verse one?</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Mmhmm.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> "<span style="color:#009900;">And I saw, and look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.</span>" And verse four?</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Mmhmm.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> "<span style="color:#009900;">These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.</span>"</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay, so what do you think about the statement that "God's Kingdom is a heavenly government with Jesus Christ as K"-- Well let me, lemme do this, lemme-- what do you think about this state-- this sentence: "God's Kingdom is a heavenly government with Jesus Christ as King", period.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Agree.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Next sentence: "From among mankind, 144,000 are taken to rule with him."</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Mmm, needs qualification.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. And that's fair, because it's difficult, and it is hard to teach - it's a little easier with you 'cause you're willing to spend the time and do some research - someone who just has a light surface interest, and you come to them and say, "Well, the Book of Revelation is full of symbolism, but this one verse here I want you to take literally." That's kinda hard to do without some digging into it, so that's fair, that does need qualified, I agree with that. That's, that's-- nothing wrong with that. And I think that article will do that for you, the one I already gave you.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Uh... "The Kingdom started to rule in 1914, and since then Satan has been cast out of heaven down to earth." Well, let's read that one now too, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+12%3A9">[Revelation] 12:9</a>. ...Actually, if you wouldn't mind, start reading at <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+12%3A7-9">7 and read through 9</a>.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> "<span style="color:#009900;">And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.</span>"</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. What do you get out of those scriptures?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I see it talking about Satan being defeated and being cast down to our area, so that he would be even more enraged against God's people.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Who's it talking about when it says "Michael"?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Well, this is one area where I would disagree with the position of Jehovah's Witnesses. I think that Michael and Jesus are two distinct figures, although I understand that Jehovah's Witnesses, along with a few other groups, would believe that Michael is another name for the Christ.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Alright. </p></blockquote>Skipping ahead just a bit more through some discussion of Satan's character:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> So, what do you think of the statement that "the Kingdom started to rule in 1914, and since then Satan has been cast out of heaven down to earth"?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I would disagree with the timeframe.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. I expected that. But you do agree with the statement in principle?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> That-- yeah-- what-- My only disagreement would be where we shift it in the course of time--</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. ...Years ago, I studied the <em>Knowledge</em> book with a man, and it had come to the 1914 part of the-- in that book it had a timeline drawn out, and the weeks of years and all that. It's not the type of thing you keep on top of your head and use all the time, so before his study, a couple of days before, I studied up, boned up, got really, <em>really</em> refreshed on it so I could explain it to him. Read it to him, he said, "Eh, okay, fine." [<em>laughs</em>] What? I was looking for an argument or a debate or a question, but, "No, I'm good with that." [<em>laughs</em>] Never did anything about it, but he believed it right off the page. Showed him three or four scriptures, "Yeah, okay." [<em>laughs</em>]</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> That's why I love the little surprises in life, don't you, sometimes?</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Huh?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> The little surprises in life.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Yeah, yeah, I-- like I said, nothing happened with him, so... That's, like I said with you, ah, no matter how this goes, you're learning what Jehovah's Witnesses believe at least, and you still have your free will, no one's gonna take that from you, not even the devil can do that, and God won't. So I just want to take the time to thank you for doing the reading and do the research and ask intelligent questions, because it's not that rare-- it's not that common! [<em>laughs</em>] People just aren't interested anymore, which is also a Bible prophecy coming true. People aren't interested, they just-- we've already talked about the wide road and the narrow road, so... Good. Of all the people I go to visit, I only have two that are interested enough to talk. The rest will take magazines, thank me, pretend they're gonna read 'em. I know they don't, but maybe something'll strike a nerve here or there, you never know. Again, I'm not allowed to judge... even though you and I are good at it! [<em>laughs</em>] Alright. "God's Kingdom will soon destroy human governments, and the earth will become a paradise." <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+16%3A14-16">Revelation, chapter 16, verses 14 through 16</a>...</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> "<span style="color:#009900;">They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and perform signs, and they go forth to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty. 'Look! I am coming as a thief. Happy is the one that stays awake and keeps his outer garments, that he may not walk naked and people look upon his shamefulness.' And they gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Har-Magedon.</span>"</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. "God's Kingdom will soon destroy human governments, and the earth will become a paradise." What does that mean to you?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Well... I would qualify it in certain ways.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Uh... Depending on what we mean by "soon", I might agree or disagree.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Let's say soon is a short period of time, but I can't tell you how short.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> It's... possible, at least.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Ah...</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> I mean, you and I know something's coming soon, we both believe <em>that</em>. Soon, we don't know how soon, but... if we're gonna take 6000 years of human history, whatever time it is, it's soon.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Probably.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Ahh, the <em>destruction</em> of human governments... I believe that is <em>plausibly</em> required for the end to come. We'll probably talk in a little while about what I think-- about how I interpret this passage, once I begin explaining what I think of all this. And I definitely do believe that the earth will become a paradise.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Why do you think-- why do you think... and not the book, why is your belief that you think the governments may need to be gotten rid of for paradise to take over?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> It depends on whether or not, in the final endgame, they resist. If they resist God's kingdom, then they will be wiped out.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Ah... The last half of 16:14 in Revelation talks about the kings of the entire inhabited earth, and it goes on to say "<span style="color:#009900;">they will gather them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Har-Magedon</span>", and we know that's the battle of God. Do you-- as a group now, as a group, governments, do you hold out hope for them?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Most of them, no.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. But you do think a human government will survive?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Possibly. If so, it will be completely submitted to God's rule.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> And taken over by God.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Mmhmm.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Not in the sense that it will <em>become</em> the kingdom of God, but it will be one of those cases of kings casting their crowns at the feet of Christ, who will be "the king of those who rule as kings and lord of those who rule as lords", as the New World Translation puts it, I think.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay.... Okay! Now, tell me what you think.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Prepare to be perplexed.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Oh you've already done that a couple of times.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Because you've probably not ever met someone who interprets these scriptures in the way that I would. Uh...</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> I don't need to take my shoes off or anything, do I, Your Holiness?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> [<em>laughs</em>] I don't think so.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I am what would be called a preterist amillennialist.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> They have pills for that, don't they?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> They're working on it. Basically, I would believe, as a preterist, that a great deal of what is talked about in various scriptures about 'the end', has already come to pass.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay, good!</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> But we would disagree at some points on which ones.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Mmhmm.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> For example, I would see many things in Matthew 24, for example, as already having been fulfilled in the first century. I would also see probably the first number of chapters of Revelation as having already been taken care of, but shifted to the earlier days such as the first century, most probably. In fact, I have a book here that's pretty interesting, uh, <em>Revelation: Four Views: A Parallel Commentary</em>. What it does is, it takes the major traditions of interpretation, ah, futurist, preterist, spiritual, and something else <span style="color:#cccccc;">[*I missed historicist*]</span>, just the major views throughout the history of trying to figure out how to look at that, and it basically comments what someone who took one of these views might think about what each passage might mean. So it's a good way to understand sort of the range. It doesn't cover everything--for example, you guys aren't in there, unfortunately--but that's what we've got books like <em>Revelation--Its Grand Climax at Hand!</em> for.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Mmhmm. And you do have that, right?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Yeah, yeah. I have that upstairs. A preterist would interpret the scene of Armageddon in that passage as referring to one of two possible things, depending on-- there are some differences within that camp. I'm not totally decided on which side I want to take. Either they would see Armageddon as the destruction-- as the destruction of Jerusalem in the first century, or the destruction-- or the fall of the Roman Empire in the fifth century. Both-- so, under either of those views, Armageddon would be something that has already taken place.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> ...So if you believe that, then you believe that all of the governments that are current now survived it.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> We would say that their destruction was not the point of Armageddon.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Now the source of your belief, though, is not the Bible on that point, it's not the Bible so much as man-written books?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> It's what the Bible says as a whole.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Hmm. So you believe that we are now in the thousand-year reign?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> As an amillennialist, yeah, I would see this as the thousand-year reign. It just looks different than some might think it would.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> For sure! [<em>laughs</em>] Uh, now I'm not making fun of you, please realize I'm not, I want to ask this question: if you believe that, then you know people who've been resurrected?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> No.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Well, aren't they resurrected during the reign?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I would say that the final general resurrection happens at the end of the reign.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. I asked you this question once before, about a year ago: do you know anybody else who believes this way?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Yep.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. You said that then, too.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I'm crazy, but I'm not alone.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> [<em>laughs</em>] Uh-oh, there's gonna be a bunch of 'em in towers with rifles. If you have time, will you do me a favor?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Sure.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> I don't care if you write it down or e-mail it to me or whatever, just give me a sentence on each one of those beliefs and the scriptures that back it up.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> And then we'll-- I'll look into the scriptures and see where our different interpretations take different paths and we'll deal with it that way. Because a lot of what you believe, I've never heard of before.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Yeah, that's why I said, "Prepare to be perplexed."</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> 'Cause I figured, most people haven't.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> I will say this: your system of belief, your religion, whether it's yours alone or a group of you have it or whatever, is more complex than what most people are going to give any time to. They just aren't going to. And yeah, I'm not going to make fun of you, because I believe you have some spiritual sincerity, I really, truly do. I also want you to consider a scripture for the rest of your life.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> John, chapter sev-- I'm sorry, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Mark+7%3A7-8">Mark, chapter seven... and verses seven and eight</a>.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> "<span style="color:#009900;">It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines the commands of men. Letting go the commandment of God, <span style="font-size:78%;">YOU</span> hold fast the tradition of men.</span>"</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> I feel that the world that you're living in, that you're studying in, you're exposed to lots and lots of traditions, and lots of, uh, academics, and some can be convincing. When someone is one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and then they decide to turn their back on the entire belief, we refer to them as apostates. And our Society tells us, when we run across them, not to talk to them. There's two reasons for that. The Bible clearly tells us not to say-- not to even say a greeting to such a man that has turned his back on the truth--on what he believed the truth was, okay? The other thing is, because none of us are strong enough to put up-- to stand up against it. The reason for that is, the Bible tells us to not get involved in that. If we're gonna decide, "Well, you know what, I think God and the Bible were-- they didn't know how good I can be! So I'm gonna go ahead and do that, I'm just gonna ignore the Bible there, I'm gonna dive in there 'cause I'm sure I can handle it", there we have turned our back on the guidance of God, which deprives us of the holy spirit, so we don't have that help. And [Shem] can tell you as well as I can, nobody's going door-to-door for years and years and years like we are without the holy spirit helping, because we're not that good. We're not that determined, we're not that strong, we're not that good. We need something helping us. So without that, we fall flat on our face. The reason that I want you to keep those two scriptures in mind - and this is, again, no matter what you decide you're doing, ever, through your life - don't fall for some <em>extremely</em> convincing and sometimes very logical traditions that men are going to tell us, tell <em>you</em> - because they will. And some of them - here's the hard part - some people, if they're just like a slimy little conniving demon person that's gonna try and change your mind, that's one thing. The hard part is when it's someone who's a nice person, and they are sincerely looking out for your best interests, they truly are, they're just wrong, that's all. They're good people, they're just wrong. And there's lots of them out there, you know that as well as I do because of the talking and the preaching that you've done. There's people out there who are sincere, they're humane, they're kind, they're just wrong. And that's, that's why this system is dragging on yet, so we can deal with as many of them as want to have open hearts and minds as possible. Just, again, that the warning is just beware that what you believe is based on the Book you believe in, okay? And that's, that's why I'm asking you to give me scriptures to support your beliefs, because I'm never gonna-- I'm <em>never</em> gonna make fun of a belief that you get from the Bible, <em>ever</em>. You're familiar with the religion that [Shem] and I ran into out in Hopeland one time, where it was easy to make fun of them people. They had Bab, the god, and... [<em>laughs</em>]</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> The Baha'is.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Yeah, those. Nasty--</p><p><strong>Shem:</strong> I still don't understand that stamp.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> The stamp, yeah, yeah...</p></blockquote>It's hard not avoid at least a brief comment on Uriah's speech about believing the Bible over man, especially since that's the exact same scripture he cited as his fallback <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2008/08/study-meeting-5.html">over a year ago</a> when he couldn't actually answer what I was saying about the Trinity. It seems to basically function as a trump card when actually persuading via the Scriptures and reason isn't an option for them. Also, of course, I find it interesting that he essentially says that no Jehovah's Witness can actually refute the apostate arguments, though their explanation for why (that they're spiritually weakened by the very attempt) is somewhat plainly an excuse. (And, of course, if I agreed with their stance on how to treat an apostate, then since Uriah used to be a Methodist, he's an apostate from traditional Christianity and hence I ought not talk with him.) But, anyway, that's more or less how the meeting ended - anything after that probably wasn't especially worthy of note - and so I'll see them again in a week.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-14307817745502769312009-12-26T17:40:00.007-05:002010-01-08T20:56:10.055-05:00JW Study Meeting #28Today around 1:00, it was time for the next meeting. When I opened the door for them, Uriah entered with Shem in tow. I hadn't seen Shem in ages, so it was great to see him again, catch up a bit, etc. (Interestingly, Uriah had told another JW at the Kingdom Hall about my meetings with Latter-day Saints while in Greece, and that JW had in turn told Shem, so when Uriah brought it up today, Shem had heard a bit about it but hadn't known it was me involved.)<br /><br />After meeting a minimal quota of smalltalk (computer stuff, largely), we talked a bit about some decorations in my house, and while we were joking around, Uriah quipped, "You know why the Israelites wondered around for forty years in the wilderness, don'tcha? One of them dropped a quarter." I also showed them a couple knives I brought back from Greece. Uriah also confessed that he has his own bottle of Pepto-Bismol at home because when he isn't feeling so well, he likes to take a few swigs straight from the bottle to help him feel better. That... might explain a lot, actually. Eventually we picked up with some material from the eighth chaper ("What Is God's Kingdom?") in <em>What Does the Bible <u>Really</u> Teach?</em>; we covered pages 76 through 81 today.<br /><br />Shem promptly started us off with a bang (<span style="font-size:78%;">okay, maybe a befuddled whimper</span>) by remembering that Jesus talks about the kingdom of God in the Lord's Prayer as recorded in the Gospel of Matthew... and then completely drawing a blank on how it went. (After watching his friend struggle with this sudden shutdown of brain activity, Uriah helpfully noted that the relevant quote is on the very first page of the chapter that was open right in front of Shem.) Shem remarked, "Oh my God.... Don't listen to me the rest of the day." Finally, we began with Uriah asking the first question in the chapter header: "What does the Bible tell us about the Kingdom of God?" My answer was:<br /><br /><blockquote>It tells us a lot of things about it. It tells us what the kingdom of God is, why it's a hope we should-- something we should all be hoping for and praying for, why it's something to look forward to, and why it's the solution to our problems.</blockquote>After commending the answer, we turned to the second of those questions: "What will God's kingdom do?" My answer, and the subsequent clarifications, ran as follows:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>JB:</strong> Rule over everything and, again, solve our problems.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> And when you say "everything", you're including the earth?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Mmhmm.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> I knew that. We did that one (?) before.</p></blockquote>The third question ("When will the kingdom cause God's will to be done on earth?") generated a bit more discussion:<br /><br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> "When will the kingdom cause God" [<em>cough</em>]-- sorry, let me start over. "When will the kingdom cause God's will to be done on earth?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> When it comes in its fullness.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Right. Right. I was looking for a specific date. [<em>laughs</em>]</p><p><strong>Shem:</strong> October.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> October 14th, right, yeah. Of who-knows-what year.</p></blockquote>After I read the first paragraph, which introduces the "first three petitions" of the Lord's Prayer, the question was, "What famous prayer will now be examined?" It was a reminder of how elementary the questions in this book are; the questions aren't designed so much to stimulate robust thought as to make sure that the person is following along. The same holds true, at least in my meagre experience, at <em>Watchtower</em> studies held at Kingdom Halls. I made light a bit of the triviality of the question by pretending to be having difficulty figuring it out, which of course gave Shem another opportunity to poke fun at himself for his earlier gaffe:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>JB:</strong> I forget...</p><p><strong>Shem:</strong> Don't laugh, I did!</p><p>[<em>We all laugh</em>]</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I know, and we're still laughing about it! Ahh... the Lord's Prayer.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Yeah, I was assuming you knew that one.</p></blockquote>Shem then read the second paragraph, which contained the first couple verses (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+6%3A9-11">Matthew 6:9-11</a>) of the Lord's Prayer, and it came time for the study question:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> The next question is just as simple, but, I want to warn you: fifty percent of practising ministers [...] wouldn't get this right. "What were three of the things that Jesus taught his disciples to pray for?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> The first one, in the order of the list in the prayer, is for the name of the Father to be sanctified, to be set apart as holy in the sight of all peoples. The second thing is for the kingdom of God to arrive in its fullness, so that God would truly and visibly be established as ruler over all the earth. And the third thing is for the will of God to be done, for all peoples to be brought into conformity with the will of Jehovah.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Absolutely. This chapter is not difficult, but it is going to get into some things like that. I mean, that was easy for you, that was just elementary for you. But fifty percent of ministers would not be able to answer those three questions. Another 25 percent wouldn't believe 'em. Because they just... put too many of their own wants in, irregardless of what Jesus prayed or said.</p></blockquote>I read the third paragraph, which narrowed the chapter's focus to the second petition.<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> "What do we need to know about God's Kingdom?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> We need to know what it is, how it relates to the other things Jesus urged us to pray for, and... we need to know-- we need to be able to recognize what its coming might look like. At least [. . .].</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. There's one more specific point that I'd like you to talk to us-- talk to me about.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Okay...</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> And the reason I want this is because most of the world denies this, but I know that you don't, so this is....</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> We need to know that it will indeed come upon the earth.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. How, uh...-- What do we need to know about God's kingdom as far as Jehovah's name?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> We need to know that Jehovah's name must be sanctified in God's kingdom.</p></blockquote>From there we got into a brief discussion of the importance of the name of Jehovah, with which I really have little substantial quarrel with Jehovah's Witnesses save that I think that they're rather extreme in their emphasis (though perhaps understandably, to counter a perceived de-emphasis on the part of other groups). Shem then read the fourth paragraph, which basically just said that Jesus is the king of God's kingdom, and Uriah then asked the question:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> "What is God's Kingdom, and who is its Ruler"-- "who is its King?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> The king of God's kingdom is Jesus Christ, and he will rule as the head of God's government, which is God's kingdom, his sovereign authority over all mankind and, indeed, all of creation.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Perfect answer with the book closed. Good. Sometimes in a study, I'll be going through here and I'll get the right answer every time from somebody, but as you get this far into the book they start to develop a knack of feeling what the answer is so they can parrot it back to you without understanding it. You didn't do that, 'cause you had your book closed and I knew you knew this much. Good! I used to do that with Benjamin. We'd read the paragraph, I'd read the question, and then I'd tell him the answer. I said, "Now tell me why that's the answer." 'Cause he was just, you know, he'd be able to pick it out of the paragraph, this is the sentence structure that fits the question. So I, "Okay, [<em>laughs</em>], but I want you to understand it." So I'd make him tell me why. He got mad at me! [<em>laughs</em>] Too bad.</p></blockquote>We went on to the fifth paragraph, which Shem read, which asserted that God's kingdom is in heaven. The text of the paragraph (<em>What Does the Bible <u>Really</u> Teach?</em>, p. 77):<br /><blockquote>From where will God's Kingdom rule? Well, where is Jesus? You will remember learning that he was put to death on a torture stake, and then he was resurrected. Shortly thereafter, he ascended to heaven. (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+2%3A33">Acts 2:33</a>) Hence, that is where God's Kingdom is--in heaven. That is why the Bible calls it a "heavenly kingdom." (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=2+Timothy+4%3A18">2 Timothy 4:18</a>) Although God's Kingdom is in heaven, it will rule over the earth.--<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+11%3A15">Revelation 11:15</a>.</blockquote>After that was read, naturally the question came next:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> "From where does God's Kingdom rule, and over what?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Let me close the book first, so I can think about it for a moment on my own. ...Well, God's kingdom, ah...-- any kingdom rules from wherever the ruler is. That's simply the way all governments work. If you've got a hierarchical structure with some group ruling, that group necessarily constitutes the power base, as it were, of the kingdom. In this case, because God's kingdom is ruled and administrated by Jesus Christ, it is ruled from wherever he is. Since he is in heaven after the Ascension, God's kingdom rules from heaven while he is there, and God's kingdom rules over a universal domain, which necessarily includes the earth. Thus God's kingdom rules over earth as well.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Good. And it is talking about present tense, sooo.... we'll let that go for now.</p></blockquote>I have a feeling that Uriah was considering bringing up the 1914 thing but decided better of it. That's probably a wise choice, because we'll be getting into some eschatological controversies pretty darn soon anyway. The sixth and seventh paragraphs concerned what makes Jesus such an ideal king, with emphasis on his character, his compassion, and his immortality (which, as I noted in answering one of the related questions, precludes any sort of succession crisis like those endemic to all other dynastic houses throughout history). Things get a little more interesting with the next few paragraphs, which deal with the role of the 144,000 in the kingdom government. I transcribe the dialogue; anything bracketed within quotes here is bracketed in the text from which is was read, save for the bracketed-and-parenthesied (parenthesized?) Scripture references, which are put in parentheses in the text, but which we don't read aloud:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> ...I think I got ahead of myself here. Want to do eight, [Shem]?</p><p><strong>Shem:</strong> "Here is another truth about God's Kingdom: Jesus will not rule alone. He will have corulers. For example, the apostle Paul told Timothy: 'If we go on enduring, we shall also rule together as kings.' [(<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=2+Timothy+2%3A12">2 Timothy 2:12</a>)] Yes, Paul, Timothy, and other faithful ones who have been selected by God will rule together with Jesus in the heavenly Kingdom. How many will have that privilege?"</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> "Who will rule with Jesus?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Good and faithful servants will. Those who have been loyal to him and who strive to do his will have been promised that they will be made joint-heirs with Christ.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Good. Number nine!</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> "As pointed out in Chapter 7 of this book, the apostle John was given a vision in which he saw 'the Lamb [Jesus Christ] standing upon the Mount Zion [his royal position in heaven], and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.' Who are those 144,000? John himself tells us: 'These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.' [(<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+14%3A1">Revelation 14:1</a>, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+14%3A14">14</a>)] Yes, they are faithful followers of Jesus Christ specially chosen to rule in heaven with him. After being raised out of death to heavenly life, 'they are to rule as kings over the earth' along with Jesus. [(<a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+5%3A10">Revelation 5:10</a>)] Since the days of the apostles, God has been selecting faithful Christians in order to complete the number 144,000."</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> "How many will rule with Jesus, and when did God start to choose them?"</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Well, as you know, this is one of the areas where we still have some disagreements that we're going to revisit.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Right.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> According to the text as it's given here, which takes the number 144,000 in Revelation to be a literal figure rather than a symbolic figure, there will be exactly 144,000 co-rulers with Christ. He began to choose them upon his ministry, his death, his resurrection, and he is continuing to choose them as time goes on, with the renewal of the gospel on earth in Jehovah's organization, and of course as replacements are needed in the cases of apostasy by those who have already been selected for the anointed class, a few new ones must be chosen.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay, good--</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> And in the understanding here--</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Mmhmm. ...Refresh my memory on what your beliefs-- [<em>cough</em>] beliefs on that.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> My belief is that the figure 144,000 given in Revelation is symbolic; it symbolizes the renewal of Israel. And it can be taken either to refer to God's people as a whole, thus being co-terminous with all who believe, or as representing the Jewish believers as opposed to the Gentile believers. In both cases, I think--I think--that all who come this saving faith will have part as joint-heirs with Christ in his rule of the kingdom of God.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> So all faithful Christians would have part in that?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I believe so, yeah.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay. Who would they be ruling over then?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> The entire creation.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Other humans too?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> I think all humans would be-- all humans who are redeemed, and thereby all-- I believe that all humans who are not redeemed will suffer a fate so dreadful that, if they can be call-- if they can be said to exist at all after that, it won't be very human. It will be dehumanized, because they will have turned themselves from the source of all things that-- that is [<em>sic</em>] good: God. I believe that the rule of the joint-heirs with Christ will be over all of creation as a whole.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Okay.</p></blockquote>They essentially accepted my answer as an answer without any quarrel whatsoever, moving us immediately to the tenth paragraph, which dealt again with the rule of this government being compassionate because of their sympathy. Paragraph eleven set out the peculiar JW interpretation of the line in the Lord's Prayer about God's will being done "as in heaven, also upon earth". In JW belief, Satan was (up until the time of the <em>parousia</em> in 1914, at least) still alive and well in heaven, and thus God's will was not being done there much more perfectly than it was being done on earth. Thus, Jesus told his followers to pray for it to be done in heaven perfectly and to be done on earth perfectly as well. Since the <em>parousia</em>, in JW belief, Satan and his forces have been cast down to our vicinity, and consequently God's will is now done in heaven but not on earth. (I asked consequently about the propriety of praying today in the exact manner specified in that verse, and they said that if a JW today were to pray, "Your will be done, as in heaven, also upon earth", they would be taken aside afterwards for correction, though neither of them have ever heard someone do that. Uriah also said that, since they don't pray the Lord's Prayer "by rote", they don't really worry about not praying along those lines.)<br /><br />I have doubts that this verse has ever been interpreted this way by any other movement prior to theirs. Rather, the prayer seems to assume that God's will is already being carried out in heaven ("as in heaven"), it should additionally be done here as well ("also upon earth"). This is essentially how Augustine of Hippo reads it (see <a href="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf106.v.iii.vi.html">here</a>, section 21), as imploring God to bring our obedience to his will in greater conformity to how the angels do things. He gives an alternative explanation that glosses the passage with the sense of, "As the righteous do Thy will, in like manner let sinners also do it, so that they may be converted unto Thee", and another with the sense of, "as in our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, so also in the Church". John Chrysostom, too, <a href="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.XIX.html">said</a> that "ye must long, saith He, for heaven, and the things in heaven", and that "He hath bidden us make the earth a heaven and do and say all things, even while we are continuing in it, as having our conversation there". Theodore of Mopsuestia, likewise commenting on the passage, <a href="http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/theodore_of_mopsuestia_lordsprayer_02_text.htm">affirmed</a> that "in this world we strive as much as possible to imitate the life which we shall live in heaven, because heaven contains nothing that is contrary to God" and, just as much to the point, that "as we believe that the will of God reigns in heaven, so it should also hold sway in earth". And interesting, before any of the three of them, Origen of Alexandria <a href="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/origen/prayer.xvii.html">specifically addresses</a> the problem of evil in heaven and, whatever one thinks of his solutions, he most definitely does not suggest that Jesus meant for us to pray that heaven be cleansed.<br /><br />The next few paragraphs treated the expulsion of Satan from heaven, and Uriah offered <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Job+1%3A6-8">Job 1:6-8</a> as a passage showing that, in earlier stages of human history, Satan was quite active in heaven. I think that's rather overstretching the passage, at least just a bit. Uriah also asked me my opinion as to why God permitted Satan to continue existing at all, and since Jehovah's Witnesses actually have a fairly decent explanation of that (that merely extinguishing Satan from existence would be resolving by brute force rather than through nobler means, and such just wouldn't be God's immensely compassionate style) and we'd talked about it months and months ago, I gave them essentially that answer, which made them quite pleased; Uriah referred to my reply as "perfect". The book went on to note that Satan now resides on the earth, and that God's will for the earth is to restore it. Paragraphs 16 and 17 went on to note that God's kingdom will triumph over all other kingdoms and is established in the midst of kingdoms that oppose it. Nothing really objectionable there. We decided that paragraph 18 would be a great place to resume, so we called it quits there and parted ways. The next meeting will be on the first Saturday of 2010.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-11879521531049537142009-12-23T13:54:00.003-05:002010-01-08T10:26:11.703-05:00JW Study Meeting #27After my return from Greece, it wasn't long before I e-mailed Uriah to resume our Bible study. Our initial appointment for 19 December fell through because of a massive snowstorm; evidently, "neither slow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds" is a good slogan for Persian postal couriers and for the U. S. Postal Service, but not so much for Jehovah's Witnesses. Hence, we rescheduled for today. With snow still heavy on the ground, though less so on the street, Uriah made his way to my door perhaps 10-30 minutes late, but no harm, no foul.<br /><br />We didn't get down to cracking open any books today for an actual study; it was, rather, mostly catch-up and story time. I told, in brief, of my living arrangements in Athens, and of my travels to Corinth and Ephesus, assuredly standing in the very footsteps of Paul the apostle; Uriah asked, "You weren't beaten with rods or stones or anything, were ya?" Nope, no persecution for me this time around. I explained how, while in Turkey, I was mistaken for a Muslim recently returned from the <em>hajj</em>, the pilgrimage to Mecca.<br /><br />Finally, however, I mentioned that I hadn't run into any Jehovah's Witnesses while there, chiefly because the nearest Kingdom Hall that I knew about had been in a relatively distant part of the city. Hence, as I said, I had to "go with the second-best: Mormons". At this, of course, Uriah started laughing and said, "Gimme a break!" We then talked for a while about my studies with Latter-day Saints over there. I mentioned that the LDS missionaries had a fairly positive image of JWs, perhaps largely because in Greece, pretty much anybody who ain't Greek Orthodox has to stick together. I then went into some of my experiences in dialogue:<br /><blockquote><p><strong>JB:</strong> I don't know how much you know about the details of what Mormons believe, but they believe that the Father is not Jehovah. They believe that Jesus is Jehovah, but that the Father is not Jehovah. Which is really quite the complete opposite--</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> --of what you guys believe, and of what I believe.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> I studied them years ago, and they kept me-- I have a hard time studying things in detail that I know going in are false. That's just too much time and effort to put into it. They have so many different levels of stuff that even they, in their literature, is made up on certain dates by certain men. Well, what's the point? I, uh-- It bored me pretty quick after I got the highlights of, 'What? Joseph Smith did what?'</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Actually I found out that I'm probably a distant cousin of Joseph Smith.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Oh really?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> So am I.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Oh yeah?</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Yeah, we both have relatives on the Ark.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Haha, I have 'em a bit more recent than that.</p><p><strong>Uriah</strong> [<em>laughing</em>]: Okay.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Back in like the 1600s or something.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Is that right?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> ...So it was interesting, I finally got to attempt to convince somebody that the Father was Jehovah. And I remember one day--I'll tell you some of the arguments I used after... I remember one day, sitting down with the Mormon missionaries, and one of them looked at me and said, "The bad news is, Jehovah's Witnesses are right."</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> One of the Mormon missionaries said that?</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Hm! Yeah, yeah-- That makes your religion tough, if you don't believe it. Wow. Hm.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> But, uh, here's basically what I said to them when they-- They believe that there are multiple gods, basically--</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Right.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> --That the Father is a god and the Son is a god; they believe that the Son is Jehovah and that the Father is an even higher god still. So the first thing I asked them was, 'Okay, well, you look at the Ten Commandments, which you guys believe are still pretty valid, and you see Jehovah say in the Ten Commandments that you're not supposed to have any gods before him. But you believe that you are supposed to worship the Father, who is - in your belief - a god higher than Jehovah. What's the deal, aren't you breaking that commandment?' They sorta had to think about that one a bit oddly for a while, weren't quite sure what to do with it. Finally they just sort of had to say, 'Well, that was for the Israelites at the time, they didn't even know about the Father, so that wouldn't have been a problem...' I asked them, 'Okay, what if one of them did know about the Father?', and they just sorta said, 'Wellllllll.... *shrug*' And then the second thing I gave them was-- in an earlier conversation, one of them had said that Jesus had referred to the temple in Jerusalem sometimes as his house but other times as his Father's house, so I said to them, 'Okay, if that's the case, the temple that was built in Jerusalem was dedicated to only one god, Jehovah. If the Israelites didn't know about any other gods, such as the Father, then that's not who the temple was dedicated to. So you have Jesus say that it's his Father's house. If you say that the Father is a god other than Jehovah, how's that even possible?' Basically the only thing they could come up with there was, 'Welllllll, he had to sort of fudge the truth a bit to be understood...'</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Hoho! Wow!</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> And I said, 'Ummmmm.... No.'</p><p><strong>Uriah</strong> [<em>laughing</em>]: 'There's another Scripture you oughta bring up right now!' Haha, wow!</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> And then the final argument I used - and this one probably drove them even more crazy - was-- I looked up a number of passages in the Old Testament that I read to them that clearly say that, 'Here's Jehovah, and here's the Messiah', two people. You know, like in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+2%3A2">Psalm 2:2</a>, it says something like, 'Why do the nations rage, why are the kings plotting against Jehovah and against his Messiah?' And then I brought in, you know, <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Isaiah+53">Isaiah 53</a> and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Psalm+22">Psalm 22</a> where, again, repeatedly, it distinguishes between Jehovah and the Messiah. So I gave them a few verses, and the first answer that one of them came up with was, 'Well, I've run into some things like this before, and when I look into the Hebrew, it usually turns out not to be "Jehovah" written there.' And I looked at him and said, 'I'm pretty sure you won't find that to be the case here. But, let's just you and me both go back, look at the Hebrew, and then next time we meet up, we'll talk about it again.' Sure enough, every single verse I'd mentioned had "Jehovah" there in the Hebrew.</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Yeah, the Tetragrammaton.</p><p><strong>JB:</strong> So I confronted them with that later, and they sorta just smiled and said, 'Welllll.... those messianic passages, maybe the authors-- Jehovah was the only god they knew, so when talking about the Father they had to refer to him that way...', and I said, 'No. Even on your beliefs, they could have referred to the Father as "Elohim", since that's what you call the Father anyway, and that would've been perfectly good Hebrew at the time, and wouldn't have been <em>wrong</em>.' They sorta just smiled and said, 'Okay, yeahhh, but, here are some other scriptures that we think say that Jesus is Jehovah, and darn it, we believe in Jesus and that's what we're sticking to.' And I sorta just thought, 'You haven't been listening to a thing I've been saying.'</p><p><strong>Uriah:</strong> Right.</p></blockquote>I have a couple regrets about that exchange. Chiefly, I could have done a better job subtly reminding Uriah that I believe that both the Father and the Son are Jehovah; the way I presented it, my beliefs seem too compatible with JW beliefs for my taste, and I regret that. I suppose that, since it was our first meeting after the break and I'd had to use some persuasion to get him to come back, I didn't want to raise anything controversial right off the bat. I still think I should've been more clear on that, but to be honest, I don't have a personality that goes very boldly into confrontation and disputation, contrary to the way it might sometimes appear from some of my accounts. Also, it should be obvious that I did not portray the Latter-day Saints terribly sympathetically, and I probably should have done a greater job at that. Not, of course, that I think my account is in any way an inaccurate summary of the exchanges I had; far from it, I think that my queries did potentially expose some glaring problems with at least the theology of the LDS missionaries I met, if not necessarily the theology of better equipped Latter-day Saints. Still, I wasn't exceptionally charitable in my description, and I think in retrospect that my LDS friends deserved better than that, so I feel a twinge of guilt about it.<br /><br />Anyway, Uriah asked where these guys came from, and so I told him where they'd originally come from, and then how I'd met them at the Areopagus, and how I came to get back in touch with them and set up the discussions, and so forth. And then, when I mentioned how in one conversation, the LDS had to basically plead faith over logic (and as I noted, whenever someone says that, my brain replies, "When you have to say that logic doesn't apply, you lose"). Uriah, of course, agreed; Jehovah's Witnesses have a more respectable epistemology than Latter-day Saints generally do. So we spent some time talking about how fideism and related sorts of things are a real problem. He noted that even many ministers in this country tend to punt to "mystery" (which, more often than not, really is a cop-out), and that the Bible was written for humans to understand, and hence even if there are deep things in it that require hard work to dig out, nothing in it is in principle beyond our capacity to get.<br /><br />From there, he said that he loves that the more fundamental truths of the Bible can be understood by anyone. As he put it, some people within "Jehovah's organization" are geniuses, and others who "are struggling to get by, 'cuz they're not hitting it with all eight cylinders" (I'm going to have to remember that metaphor), and yet all of them can understand the Bible to the extent they need to in order to do Jehovah's will; as he put it, the Bible is "as deep as you are, or not". He explained that some people in his local congregation are "mildly retarded; I mean, they're functioning, but, you know-- and God bless them, I wouldn't want to have to go through this life like that, but they are, and they're doing fine, and they understand things about the Bible that Paul wrote and everything-- they understand enough to be accepted by God."<br /><br />He also, on the other hand, mentioned that when he was still a fairly new JW, he went out for door-to-door work with another newbie, a ministerial servant, a congregational elder, a circuit overseer, and a district overseer. And the district overseer was, evidently, quite a sharp fellow; as Uriah put it, during breaks he liked to get into discussions of his hobby to unwind: quantum physics. (Sounds like my kind of guy!) And one cold morning, he'd felt rather intimidated by how accomplished they were, and was inclined to go home, but after sticking with it he realized he didn't feel embarassed, but rather great. They all stopped at the one local diner for a cup of coffee and donuts, Uriah said, and naturally the district overseer wanted to talk physics. And the other new guy had "kind of an ambitious spirit" and hence "kept brown-nosing", and on the way to the cash register to pay, the other new guy pushes through and tells the cashier that he'll pay for the two overseers as well as himself. The district overseer, a clever guy, thanked the new guy and said, "And these other brothers are with us too", and then all of them promptly walked out and left the brown-noser there to pay for everyone. (As Uriah said, the new guy was eventually disabused of the notion that "we have ranks, which we don't", and having matured and gotten his head on straight, he's pretty fine now.)<br /><br />I told a couple more stories from my meetings with the LDS, mostly revolving around my penchant for reading and so forth, and how the addition of Admetus to the meetings didn't help the LDS to actually answer my questions satisfactorily, <em>per se</em>. And we went on to discuss how anyone who's going to belong to a religion should be willing to put forth the effort required in terms of labor and study to really do it well. Hey, no argument there! As he said for his part, being a Jehovah's Witness would be "way too much work" if he didn't sincerely believe in it; "if this was just something I was supposed to go through mechanically, I'm not doing all this. I'm not doing all this studying, I'm not going to all these meetings, I'm not going out in service, because I can go back to being a Methodist and do nothing! That was easy. It's just too much work." And I agreed, of course, that it's quite important to put in a real effort. I know for my part, I'm determined to study as much as I can, because "God gave us brains for a reason: to use them".<br /><br />Uriah then mentioned that they'd gotten a new elder for their congregation lately, a quiet, "Gomer Pyle-ish" guy who's nonetheless "sharp as a task". He moved here from Minnesota and has twenty years or so of experience as a congregational elder. Uriah then talked for a bit about Christmas and how the real facts about it are readily available in newspapers and encyclopedias, but people just don't care, and etc., etc. He didn't go on about it for long, and I decided not to start an argument about it.<br /><br />I asked how the publishing work was going, and he said it was going alright. They'd picked up a few studies while I was gone, and dropped a few too. He said that some of their studies are old people who just want some company for an hour or so every now and then, and who couldn't care less what they're studying, be it JW literature or the phone book, just to get some human contact. And those aren't fruitful studies, so they generally drop them when they're sure it isn't going to change. He said of the four or five new studies they've picked up, "most of those will wash out, too". He said that the congregation typically has 25-30 going on at any given time, which is less than one per JW. "About every third person usually has a study, give or take." After a quick story about how he covered another JW's study while the other guy was off in Trinidad, I asked how many studies he personally usually has going on. He said that his range has historically been between zero and five, but it's two these days, which he started after a period of having none a few years back. He also said that he, as a JW, typically has 25 return visits to do per month to drop off new magazines and gauge a person's spiritual interest, and that if he repeatedly detects none, he'll generally invite a person to a specific meeting, often the annual memorial service, and if they don't come, then he'll go back one more time and say, "Well, there's no point in continuing this, because you're not making any spiritual advancement, and that's what I'm here for." Most of the time, that gets met with apathy, though on rare occasions it'll spur the person to action. (I find it interesting, of course, that 'spiritual advancement' seems to have just one measure: external involvement with Jehovah's Witnesses.) He related a story of having regular 15-20 minute spiritual conversations with an octogenarian whose Lutheran wife disapproved strongly of Jehovah's Witnesses, and Uriah used to invite the guy regularly to meetings, but he never came. But Uriah figured, well, it's understandable that the elderly guy wouldn't necessarily want to drive a few cities over to get there. However, one time Uriah arrived and heard that the guy had just gotten back from a hunting trip to Maine, so clearly driving was no problem at all, and so Uriah "cranked the study up a little bit with him and told him that, you know, 'I'm gonna invite you to the memorial in March, and if you don't come, I don't really see any point in me coming here every month for nothing, for no progress,' because it's been four years, so... I lost that one, because he didn't come." He went on to say,<br /><blockquote>You try not to lose any, because although we do refer to them as "our studies", they're not. It's Jesus' study. He gave that assignment to the faithful and discreet slave, and as the other sheep we're helping them out, so ultimately it's Jesus' study, and I don't want the responsibility, I don't have the right to sit there and judge people's spirituality. That's up to them, that's between them and God, so... I'm just the tool that's supposed to be helping them through the book.</blockquote>From there, he said that on many occasions, "the first thing we do in a study, by accident, is teach people how to read out loud", because that just isn't a skill that most people have cultivated and kept using in their lives, particularly when it isn't something that they themselves have written. For his own part, he said, he was forty when he started "studying the Bible", and he was "amazed at what [he] couldn't read out loud". So, naturally, one of the first barriers aside from sheer interest issues is to deal with the embarassment factor with public speaking. He said that "reading the Bible every day, discussing it with somebody every week, and going to the Theocratic Ministry School that teaches you how to do public speaking and then gives you the counsel on it every single week" is a huge benefit in keeping that ability alive and making it stronger.<br /><br />He also talked about how difficult it can be at first to give talks in front of people like that; for the first year he was doing it, he said he should've brought a change of shirt because he'd soak his through with sweat during his talks. (I can sympathize. No matter how much I get complimented when speaking, preaching, or acting on stage, I'm typically panicking on the inside for about an hour before hand and most of the way through the thing!) However, it's a necessary skill for the evangelistic work that they do. Uriah said that the first "talk" they do in Theocratic Ministry School is generally a Bible reading of about 15-20 verses, which is still quite difficult for most because placing emotion and emphasis while reading is definitely an acquired skill for many. For his own part, he found that although for years he had managed several departments, run meetings for his employees, and read his own material aloud, he stumbled over words constantly when he started to work through <em>Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life</em>. And, while he was tempted to give up, he pressed through. And here I got to hear a little bit of the chronology of his indoctrination:<br /><blockquote>It took me a year. We started the book in June, and the following June... well, by November we were done with the book. And then I went out in service and I was preaching for about six months and then I got baptized. And, uh, it's been work. It's been work, it's been persecution, it's been blessings... it's been worth it. Even in times when I didn't have a job and money was short, I could think to myself, "Do I want to be me, poor, and in a good relationship with God, or do I want to be Bill Gates and have no Bible-based relationship with God and have billions of dollars?" And I keep picking me; my situation's better! So, yeah, I've had no regrets whatsoever. It's been work, and I'm willing to put more into it.</blockquote>And then he gave some stories about how one year he was head of the installation department for a convention, and the next year he was just an assistant, and he was pleasantly surprised to find that he was okay with that, because "the work is still the work", and leading isn't the important thing. And he explained that a congregation is typically divided into service groups of 12-15 people so that elders can focus on a group and not get overworked, and each group takes turns cleaning the Kingdom Hall. And the elders have an unwritten agreement that they're the ones who clean the toilets, to send the message that they're not above anybody else. He added that one thing they tell ministerial servants who want to become elders is that "the reward for a good job is more work".<br /><br />When I had a chance to ask how Shem was doing, Uriah revealed that Shem's started dating a woman from the JW congregation in Palmyra, and things are going well because "neither one's turned off by the other one". So Uriah filled me in for a bit and mentioned how some friends had managed to hook Shem up, and how things had been going since. Sounds like things are going well, and I'm happy for him. (They'll be meeting again soon at Japheth's house, but not Ham's. Ham "doesn't know anything about it, [Ham] would be judgmental".) When I mentioned that I hope I get to see Shem again sometime, Uriah said that they'd recently moved their small group's study location, but that he's still the group overseer and Shem's still his assistant, so if I want to keep studying, I'll be guaranteed to see Shem again, "so long as he isn't girl-crazy".<br /><br />After some other discussion from there, largely about memories from the convention, Uriah said:<br /><blockquote>So, in case I never told you, that's my ultimate motive for coming here. To study with you, to familiarize you with the Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs, and hopefully you would progress on that, because like we said before, I'm not gonna try to teach you a religion I don't believe in. That would be stupid, that would be Southern Baptist or something. Or Mormon!</blockquote>Then, after recalling that the last time LDS missionaries stopped at his door, Uriah had succeeded in placing literature with them after about a half-hour of conversation, he said that he feels sorry for Latter-day Saints, because he knows how tough door-to-door work is, whether for the "right religion" or the "wrong religion". And so he judges most of them to be sincere, but wrong, and noted that one doesn't have to study very hard to begin to see where they're wrong. He said he wasn't completely sure if Mormons consider themselves "literal Christians" (whatever that means, they do), and talked about how one is bound to stumble into believing some of Jesus' teachings just by accident.<br /><br />After deciding where to pick up when we meet again on Saturday (chapter 8), Uriah handed me some of the latest magazines, including the <em>Watchtower</em> and <em>Awake!</em> from December, both of which include (naturally) some Christmas-bashing stuff dealing with the wise men, as well as the November <em>Watchtower</em>, which features a six-article series called "Exposed: Six Myths About Christianity". It tackles things like the soul, hell, the Trinity, the status of Mary, icons, etc., and while Uriah was impressed with how well they all hung together, I read through it afterwards and was... significantly underwhelmed. It basically included quotes from several scarcely relevant sources, some of which would only be even remotely authoritative for Roman Catholic readers, and then a few comments that wholly miss any sort of nuance. Each 'article' is maybe half a page, and half of each is just a couple quotes, and then the rest are very brief comments. Nothing for any educated orthodox believer to sweat for even a moment. Uriah, however, said that "in my mind, if somebody understands those six pages, and is attending meetings, then they're ready to join the School", referring no doubt to the Theocratic Ministry School. Presumably, "understand" has to also include "agree".<br /><br />As the meeting ended, I talked briefly about the LDS understanding of the Fall (he had asked more precisely how LDS understand <a href="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Genesis+3%3A15">Genesis 3:15</a>), and then about their identification of Adam with the archangel Michael and the Ancient of Days, which really shocked Uriah, who after a bit of silence said, "Apparently I need to go into business with some Mormons, they're willing to believe anything." He also said that he's glad that at least I can keep all this stuff straight in my head, because he doesn't think he could.<br /><br />So with that, we parted, setting up our next meeting time while at the door...JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-20680333960700329782009-12-14T11:30:00.022-05:002010-03-25T18:08:00.072-04:00Table of Contents<strong></strong><br /><strong>Introductory Material</strong><br /><br /><ul><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/12/faqs.html">Frequently Asked Questions</a> - Answers to a few questions you might have but probably don't</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/12/dramatis-personae.html">Dramatis Personae</a> - Brief blurbs about some of the characters you'll find here</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/01/books-read-2007-to-present.html">Books Read</a> - A list of the books I've read since the start of 2007</li></ul><strong>Questions from Readers</strong><br /><br /><ol><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/01/questions-from-readers-1-jws-and-romans.html">Jehovah's Witnesses and Romans 8:8-9</a> </li></ol><strong>JW Study Meetings</strong><br /><br /><ol><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/08/study-meeting-1.html">7 June 2008</a> - Wherein JB begins a JW Bible study and hears conversion stories</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2008/06/study-meeting-2.html">21 June 2008</a> - Wherein JB and the JWs discuss the Bible being the Word of God</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2008/07/study-meeting-3.html">5 July 2008</a> - Wherein JB and the JWs discuss the future restoration of creation</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2008/07/study-meeting-4.html">26 July 2008</a> - Wherein JB confesses his Trinitarianism</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2008/08/study-meeting-5.html">2 August 2008</a> - Wherein JB defends the deity of Christ and answers JW objections</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2008/08/study-meeting-6.html">16 August 2008</a> - Wherein JB distinguishes Trinitarianism from modalism and questions the 'faithful and discreet slave'</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2008/08/study-meeting-7.html">30 August 2008</a> - Wherein JB explains John 1:1, Trinitarian doctrine, and church history, and discusses the practical implications of Trinitarianism</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/08/study-meeting-8.html">13 September 2008</a> - Wherein JB distinguished Trinitarianism from modalism (again), answers JW objections to the deity of Christ (again), and learns about JW history; also wherein JB challenges the JW depiction of the crucifixion</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2008/10/study-meeting-9.html">13 October 2008</a> - Wherein Uriah expounds the Watchtower's authority and discusses 'new light' with JB</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2008/11/study-meeting-10.html">1 November 2008</a> - Wherein Uriah gives JB articles</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2008/11/study-meeting-11.html">29 November 2008</a> - Wherein JB and Uriah discuss books, Mormonism, Joyce Meyer, etc.</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2008/12/study-meeting-12.html">20 December 2008</a> - Wherein JB and Uriah make small-talk and discuss the atonement</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2008/12/study-meeting-13.html">27 December 2008</a> - Wherein JB and Uriah make more small talk and discuss the atonement some more</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/01/study-meeting-14.html">17 January 2009</a> - Wherein Uriah presents the JW perspective on the fate of the dead</li><li>N/A</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/03/study-meeting-16.html">7 March 2009</a> - Wherein JB challenges the JW view on the fate of the dead, and Uriah interprets scriptures differently</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/03/study-meeting-17.html">14 March 2009</a> - Wherein JB and Uriah make small-talk</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/05/study-meeting-18.html">23 May 2009</a> - Wherein JB learns about JW conventions</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/05/study-meeting-19.html">30 May 2009</a> - Wherein JB rants about Word of Faith teachers</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/06/study-meeting-20.html">6 June 2009</a> - Wherein JB challenges the JW view of the limited general resurrection</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/06/study-meeting-21.html">20 June 2009</a> - Wherein JB challenges the JW position on resurrection as 'spirit-creatures'</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/07/study-meeting-22.html">18 July 2009</a> - Wherein Uriah is open to the physical resurrection of Christ</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/08/study-meeting-23.html">8 August 2009</a> - Wherein JB learns more about JW organizational structure and life as a JW</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/08/study-meeting-24.html">15 August 2009</a> - Wherein JB and Uriah discuss the anointed class and the great crowd</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/08/study-meeting-25.html">22 August 2009</a> - Wherein Uriah shares stories from door-to-door ministry and life as a congregational elder and literature servant, and JB and Uriah talk about books</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/08/study-meeting-26.html">29 August 2009</a> - Wherein they discuss computers and bad neighbors</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/12/jw-study-meeting-27.html">23 December 2009</a> - Wherein JB and Uriah catch up after the former's stay in Greece, and the two talk about LDS stuff and the importance of personal involvement in religion</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/12/jw-study-meeting-28.html">26 December 2009</a> - Wherein JB, Uriah, and Shem talk about the kingdom of God</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/01/jw-study-meeting-29.html">2 January 2010</a> - Wherein they discuss God's kingdom and Armageddon, and JB explains preterism briefly</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/01/jw-study-meeting-30.html">9 January 2010</a> - Wherein JB, Uriah, and Shem begin to discuss 'signs of the end'.</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/01/jw-study-meeting-31.html">16 January 2010</a> - Wherein JB, Uriah, and Shem continue to discuss 'signs of the end' and also how to be prepared.</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/02/jw-study-meeting-32.html">13 February 2010</a> - Wherein JB, Uriah, and Raanan discuss angels, and JB asks annoying questions about the Nephilim.</li></ol><strong>LDS Discussions</strong><br /><br /><ol><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/10/lds-lesson-1.html">8 October 2009</a> - Wherein Creon and Daedalos present LDS views on apostasy, the Restoration, and ecclesiology, and everyone discusses the relationship between faith and knowledge</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/10/lds-lesson-2.html">9 October 2009</a> - Wherein JB asks about LDS scripture and the apostasy, Creon presents an inaccurate summary of church history, and the missionaries present the LDS Plan of Salvation</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/10/lds-lesson-3.html">14 October 2009</a> - Wherein Admetus is introduced, and wherein all discuss pre-mortality, ecclesiology, and the gospel</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-lesson-4.html">4 November 2009</a> - Wherein Daedalos is replaced by Orestes, and wherein all discuss the plurality of gods, perfection, monotheism, the difference between Trinitarianism and modalism, God as an exalted man, the relationship between God and time, the Book of Mormon, and praying for testimonies</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-lesson-5.html">11 November 2009</a> - Wherein JB asks hard questions about ordinances in the apostolic period, the biblical view of priesthood, the sonship of Christ; and also wherein they watch a video clip and the missionaries talk about the importance of feelings</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-lesson-6.html">18 November 2009</a> - Wherein the missionaries discuss the Ten Commandments and the Word of Wisdom with JB, and wherein we all laud C. S. Lewis</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-lesson-7.html">19 November 2009</a> - Wherein JB asks hard questions about the relationship between Jehovah and the Father and intelligences, and wherein the missionaries try to discredit the Bible</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-lesson-8.html">27 November 2009</a> - Wherein the missionaries explain tithing and fasting, and JB asks more hard questions about Jehovah and the Father, the King Follett Discourse, and exaltation and omniscience</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-lesson-9.html">30 November 2009</a> - Wherein the missionaries and JB discuss personal revelation... and wherein JB receives a 'burning in the bosom'?</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/02/lds-lesson-10.html">18 February 2010</a> - Wherein JB gets to meet some missionaries on this side of the Atlantic Ocean and reminisces about Greece</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/02/lds-lesson-11.html">26 February 2010</a> - Wherein the missionaries talk to JB about spiritual gifts, focusing on others, and praying "with real intent"</li></ol><ul><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/12/reflections-on-lessons-with-lds.html">Reflections on Discussions 1-9</a></li></ul><strong>Kingdom Hall Visits</strong><br /><br /><ol><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2008/04/trip-to-local-kingdom-hall.html">6 April 2008</a> - Wherein Daniel and JB attend a JW meeting</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/04/revenge-of-kingdom-hall-lords-evening.html">10 April 2009</a> - Wherein JB attends a "Lord's Evening Meal" Memorial Service.</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/08/friend-goes-to-kingdom-hall.html">20 August 2009</a> - Wherein JB's friends Nick and Ray visit a Kingdom Hall</li></ol><strong>LDS Church Visits</strong><br /><ol><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/03/first-visit-to-lds-church.html">14 March 2010</a> - Wherein JB experiences sacrament meeting, Gospel Principles class, and priesthood meeting for the first time</li></ol><strong>JW Conventions</strong><br /><ul><li>2009 "Keep on the Watch" District Convention</li><li><blockquote><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/08/evangelical-report-from-jw-district.html">Day Two</a> (1 August 2009)</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/08/your-brother-was-dead-and-came-to-life.html">Annual Drama</a></li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/08/evangelical-report-from-jw-district_02.html">Day Three</a> (2 August 2009)<img class="gl_link" border="0" alt="Link" src="http://www.blogger.com/img/blank.gif" /></li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/08/evangelical-reflections-after-jw.html">Reflections</a></li></blockquote></li><li>2010 "Safeguard Your Spirituality" Circuit Assembly</li><li><blockquote><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/01/2010-circuit-assembly-day-one.html">Day One</a> (30 January 2010)</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/01/2010-circuit-assembly-day-two.html">Day Two</a> (31 January 2010)</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/02/evangelical-reflections-on-2010-circuit.html">Reflections</a></li></blockquote></li></ul><p><strong>LDS Fireside Chats</strong></p><ol><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-fireside-chat.html">7 November 2009</a> - Elder Johann Wondra, Third Quorum of the Seventy</li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-fireside-chat-2.html">25 November 2009</a> - Elder Gerald Causse, First Quorum of the Seventy</li></ol><p><strong>Miscellaneous Other Posts</strong></p><ul><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/02/reply-to-mark-hunter.html">A Reply to Mark Hunter</a> - A response to a <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/12/faqs.html?showComment=1265960580414#c7001102780035147431">comment</a> offered by <a href="http://www.freeminds.org/blogs/watchtower-teachings/index.php">Mark Hunter</a></li><li><a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2010/03/why-carlos-woke-up.html">Why Carlos Woke Up</a> - Some reflections in response to the post "<a href="http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/2010/02/what-made-you-wake-up.html">What made you wake up?</a>" by <a href="http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/">Carlos Scienza</a></li></ul><p></p>JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-65614728751244715832009-12-13T09:16:00.012-05:002010-03-25T20:00:07.721-04:00Dramatis PersonaeThis is, as it were, just a brief guide to some of the characters you're bound to run into around these parts.<br /><br /><br /><strong>Admetus:</strong> A Latter-day Saint CES Institute teacher from Colorado who worked in the Greece - Athens mission while JB was studying there. Also a former LDS bishop when he lived in Utah. Husband of Alcestis. He's a jovial, good-natured, fairly sharp-minded fellow.<br /><br /><strong>Aethelbald:</strong> An older friend of JB's who occasionally attends classes at JB's college.<br /><br /><strong>Ajax:</strong> A Latter-day Saint missionary who served in the Greece - Athens mission while JB was studying there.<br /><br /><strong>Alcestis:</strong> A Latter-day Saint woman from Colorado. Wife of Admetus.<br /><br /><strong>Alcibiades:</strong> A Latter-day Saint man who served as mission president of Greece in 2009.<br /><br /><strong>Almog:</strong> A young Jehovah's Witness man from Pennsylvania whom JB met at a circuit assembly.<br /><br /><strong>Amythaon:</strong> The second counselor in the bishopric of the Latter-day Saint ward nearest to where JB went to college.<br /><br /><strong>Ananias:</strong> A Jehovah's Witness man from Pennsylvania.<br /><br /><strong>Atarah:</strong> A Jehovah's Witness woman from Pennsylvania. Wife of Uriah.<br /><br /><strong>Aquila:</strong> A young Jehovah's Witness man from New Jersey whom I met at a district convention.<br /><br /><strong>Beriah:</strong> An older Jehovah's Witness man from Pennsylvania. Taught Uriah.<br /><br /><strong>Childeric:</strong> JB's college roommate during his final semester as an undergraduate. A conservative charismatic Christian with an extreme focus on miraculous faith-healings, modern-day prophecy, etc.<br /><br /><strong>Cleisthenes:</strong> A Latter-day Saint missionary who served in the Greece - Athens mission while JB was studying there.<br /><br /><strong>Creon:</strong> A Latter-day Saint missionary and BYU student from California who served in the Greece - Athens mission while JB was studying there and was transferred to the Greece - Thessaloniki mission a few weeks after JB left. One of the missionaries with whom JB did the missionary discussions. Fairly soft-spoken fellow, but eminently likeable.<br /><br /><strong>Daedalos:</strong> A Latter-day Saint missionary from Nevada who served for a time in the Greece - Athens mission while JB was studying there, but who was transferred to the Cyprus mission. One of the missionaries with whom JB did the missionary discussions initially.<br /><br /><strong>Daniel:</strong> JB's best friend and partner in crime. A moderately conservative evangelical Christian and university student from Pennsylvania. Consider him JB's mischievous evil twin - or the other way around.<br /><br /><strong>Demophon:</strong> A Latter-day Saint missionary serving his mission in Pennsylvania.<br /><br /><strong>Ealhswith:</strong> A friend of JB's and an evangelical/charismatic Christian and university student from Pennsylvania.<br /><br /><strong>Ehud:</strong> A Jehovah's Witness man from Pennsylvania. Attends same congregation as Uriah and Shem. Dynamic speaker who delivered talks at both the 2009 district convention and the 2010 circuit assembly.<br /><br /><strong>Ezbon:</strong> Formerly the local district overseer of Jehovah's Witnesses.<br /><br /><strong>Ham:</strong> A Jehovah's Witness man from Pennsylvania. Brother of Shem and Japheth, son of Zibiah.<br /><br /><strong>Harthacanute:</strong> A Christian man from Pennsylvania. Formerly associate pastor of JB's church.<br /><br /><strong>Ithamar:</strong> A Jehovah's Witness elder who moved from the Midwest to Pennsylvania. Serves in the same congregation as Uriah.<br /><br /><strong>Japheth:</strong> A Jehovah's Witness man from Pennsylvania. Brother of Shem and Ham, son of Zibiah.<br /><br /><strong>JB:</strong> Author of this blog. A moderately conservative evangelical Christian and religion and philosophy student from Pennsylvania. Self-professed jerk.<br /><br /><strong>Kallinos:</strong> A Latter-day Saint missionary from California who served a mission in Pennsylvania. Demophon's partner after Sthenlos' transfer.<br /><br /><strong>Kostas:</strong> A Latter-day Saint missionary from Italy whom JB met at a fireside chat in Athens, Greece.<br /><br /><strong>Lysistrata:</strong> A female Latter-day Saint missionary from Connecticut who served in the Greece - Athens mission while JB was studying there. Partner of Sappho.<br /><br /><strong>Medea:</strong> A Latter-day Saint woman whom JB met in Athens.<br /><br /><strong>Mephibosheth:</strong> A Jehovah's Witness man from Pennsylvania.<br /><br /><strong>Meret:</strong> A Jehovah's Witness woman who moved from the Midwest to Pennsylvania. Wife of Ithamar.<br /><br /><strong>Mieszko:</strong> Friend and fellow student at JB's college.<br /><br /><strong>Nahath:</strong> The local circuit overseer (Pennsylvania Circuit 5) of Jehovah's Witnesses.<br /><br /><strong>Nick:</strong> JB's friend. A conservative evangelical Christian and philosophy student at <a href="http://www.ses.edu/">Southern Evangelical Seminary</a> in North Carolina.<br /><br /><strong>Noam:</strong> A Jehovah's Witness man from Pennsylvania whom JB met at a circuit assembly.<br /><br /><strong>Orestes:</strong> A Latter-day Saint missionary from Utah who served in the Greece - Thessaloniki mission initially and who was transferred to the Greece - Athens mission while JB was studying there. One of the missionaries with whom JB did the majority of the missionary discussions. Likeable fellow who exudes confidence and good cheer.<br /><br /><strong>Polyxena:</strong> A Latter-day Saint woman from Pennsylvania who teaches a Gospel Essentials class at the ward near where JB went to college.<br /><br /><strong>Priscilla:</strong> A young Jehovah's Witness woman from New Jersey whom JB met at a district convention.<br /><br /><strong>Ray:</strong> Friend of JB and Nick. A conservative evangelical Christian and student and <a href="http://www.ses.edu/">Southern Evangelical Seminary</a> in North Carolina.<br /><br /><strong>Sappho:</strong> A female Latter-day Saint missionary from Finland who served in the Greece - Athens mission while JB was studying there. Partner of Lysistrata.<br /><br /><strong>Sarah:</strong> JB's girlfriend. A young Christian woman from Pennsylvania (originally, Wisconsin).<br /><br /><strong>Shem:</strong> A Jehovah's Witness ministerial servant from Pennsylvania. One of the Jehovah's Witnesses with whom JB does their 'Bible study'. Raised in a Jehovah's Witness home, rebelled, then returned to their faith. Very quiet fellow with a good sense of humor.<br /><br /><strong>Solon:</strong> A Latter-day Saint missionary who served in the Greece - Athens mission while JB was studying there. When JB met him, Solon had recently injured himself playing football.<br /><br /><strong>Sthenelos:</strong> A Latter-day Saint missionary who served a mission in Pennsylvania. Creon's roommate at BYU. Met with JB once before being transferred to another ward.<br /><br /><strong>Sweyn:</strong> A Christian student who attends the same college as JB.<br /><br /><strong>Talya:</strong> A Jehovah's Witness woman originally from England. Mother of Meret.<br /><br /><strong>Tiresias:</strong> A Latter-day Saint missionary from Sweden who served in the Greece - Athens mission while JB was studying there.<br /><br /><strong>Uriah:</strong> A Jehovah's Witness congregational elder from Pennsylvania. One of the Jehovah's Witnesses with whom JB does their 'Bible study'. A convert to their faith from Methodism. A very likeable, down-to-earth, good-natured fellow.<br /><br /><strong>Zedekiah:</strong> A very talkative Jehovah's Witness man who engaged me in conversation at a district convention.<br /><br /><strong>Ze'ev:</strong> A Theocratic Ministry School overseer for a congregation in Pennsylvania Circuit 5. JB met him at the 2010 circuit assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses.<br /><br /><strong>Zibiah:</strong> A Jehovah's Witness woman from Pennsylvania. Mother of Shem, Ham, and Japheth.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-52915818145257380692009-12-13T08:56:00.012-05:002010-05-21T17:44:03.207-04:00FAQs<strong></strong><br /><strong>Q: Are these <em>really</em> 'Frequently Asked Questions'?</strong><br /><br />A: Sure! Well, I mean, I frequently ask myself these questions, and no one said that didn't count.<br /><br /><strong>Q: That doesn't count.</strong><br /><br />A: Too late. And that wasn't a question.<br /><br /><strong>Q: Fine. So who are you, anyway?</strong><br /><br />A: I go by 'JB', both online and (for the most part) offline, so call me that. I prefer it to "that one loser with the goofy blog", thank you very much. (Though I'd probably answer to both...) I'm a moderately conservative evangelical Christian with a bachelor's degree in religion and philosophy and a passion for theology, philosophy, biblical studies, church history, apologetics, ecumenicism, and inter-religious dialogue. My primary hobbies are reading, goofing around on the Internet, watching shows like <em>Law and Order</em>, and genealogical research. Theologically, I stand steadfastly within the realm of Nicene orthodoxy, and even more specifically within Chalcedonian orthodoxy.<br /><br /><strong>Q: How about more specifically? Theologically speaking, I mean.</strong><br /><br />A: Protologically, I'm a theistic evolutionist. Eschatologically, I'm an orthodox preterist. With respect to the role of God and man in salvation, I'm an Arminian, and with respect to God's foreknowledge, I'm a Molinist. On baptism, I'm a credobaptist who favors immersion as the norm, but I recognize other forms as valid; and when it comes to communion, I generally dance back and forth between consubstantiation and a more symbolic, mystical, ritual view. I'm also quite strongly egalitarian, and I'm inclined towards cessationism when it comes to the flashier sorts of pneumatic gifts - count me as 'open but cautious', really, but with an inclination towards what's sometimes called "concentric cessationism". I think that covers the main bases.<br /><br /><strong>Q: What do all those words mean? Like, "protology", isn't that something to do with the doctor who puts his hand--</strong><br /><br />A: NO. No need to finish that sentence, please. Alright, more simply, "protology" is the study of 'first things', like creation/origins stuff. I believe in evolution, and I believe that God's providence was heavily involved from start to finish. "Eschatology" is the study of 'last things', and I'm an orthodox preterist (not to be confused with so-called 'full preterists', who are actually heretics who believe that all prophecy has been fulfilled, that the resurrection has already taken place, and that this is the best things will ever be). Being an orthodox preterist means that I consider most biblical prophecy, like in Matthew 24 and in the bulk of the Book of Revelation, to be talking about things that already happened; but I definitely still believe in the future bodily return of Christ to earth and in the future bodily resurrection of all. I also mentioned that I'm an Arminian and a Molinist. Basically--and this is more complicated--I place a high stress both on the absolute necessity of God's grace and also on the role of genuine free will on our part; God doesn't make us choose him. Every person who is saved, while unable to be saved without God's grace, could have rejected him; and no person will in the end have anyone to blame but themselves for refusing God. Being a Molinist is basically holding Luis de Molina's view of how divine foreknowledge 'works', and essentially it divides God's knowledge into three major categories. First is 'natural knowledge', which is God's knowledge of all necessary truths that are independent of his will (e.g., "2 + 2 = 4"). On the other end is his 'free knowledge', his knowledge of all contingent truths that are dependent on his will (e.g., "JB has a blog", because God didn't have to create me, although I think he made a pretty darn good choice in doing so, because I'm just that cool). In between comes his 'middle knowledge', his knowledge of things like counterfactuals of creaturely freedom (e.g., "If JB is given a book about football, he will sell it and buy a book about something important like theology instead"). In between the second and third logical 'moments' of divine knowledge comes God's decree to create. That's the big difference between Luis de Molina and Domingo Banez, an opponent of Molina who put the creative decree before 'middle knowledge'. So why care? Well, Molinism seems to do a pretty good job at reconciling free will and a robust view of divine election. The next term, "credobaptist", means that I think that baptism should ideally be for those who can actually have faith; it's the opposite of a "paedobaptist", who supports baptizing infants. Basically, I don't think that someone can be born into Christianity; it's a choice. And since that's what baptism is for, I'm not a fan of baptizing babies who don't even have a clue what's going on. Then on communion, I'm tempted towards "consubstantiation", which is a 'Real Presence' view of the eucharist (i.e., Christ calling the bread his 'body' isn't just a metaphor or a symbol), but which dissents from the Roman Catholic view that the bread and wine cease to be bread and wine when they begin to be body and blood. But I'm also cool with certain non-'Real Presence' views of the eucharist, so no biggie. I also referred to myself as "egalitarian", which means that I take a strong stance as to the equality of men and women before God, and I have no objection to, say, female elders, pastors, bishops, etc. The most influential book in cementing me in that position was William Webb's <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Slaves-Women-Homosexuals-Exploring-Hermeneutics/dp/0830815619/">Slaves, Women, and Homosexuals: Exploring the Hermeneutics of Cultural Analysis</a></em>. Finally, I'm a "concentric cessationist". A 'cessationist' basically considers certain gifts of the Spirit--things like faith-healing, speaking in tongues, and especially certain offices like 'apostle' and 'prophet'--to generally be inoperative today; in other words, Pentecostal we ain't. A 'concentric cessationist' qualifies this by saying that many of these gifts (but generally not offices like 'apostle') were given to the church then because of their social situation, and so where those circumstances apply to the church today (say, in the global South), so might 'miraculous' gifts in ways that they probably don't in, say, contemporary America.<br /><br /><strong>Q: So what's the point of this blog?</strong><br /><br />A: The original motivation was to keep my personal blog (now defunct) relatively uncluttered by accounts of my dealings with Jehovah's Witnesses, since I tend to write long-winded posts anyway. In addition, it's my hope that the stories of my encounters with Jehovah's Witnesses, Latter-day Saints, and others can be of some use to somebody out there, or at least of interest. And, even if not, then it's pretty useful to me to write this stuff down anyway. I blog <a href="http://iron-in-fire.blogspot.com/">elsewhere</a> about 'Christian spirituality' or whatever you want to call it.<br /><br /><strong>Q: Why do you meet with these people?</strong><br /><br />A: As I said before, I have a passion for inter-religious dialogue, and that includes with these folks. Jehovah's Witnesses, Latter-day Saints, anybody. I particularly enjoy those dialogues because I'm very interested in the doctrine of the Trinity, and so interacting with non-Trinitarian groups within the Christian fold (or even claim to exhaust the extent of that fold) is pretty much the perfect activity for me. And, of course, I freely confess having a desire to rationally persuade members of those groups that, where we disagree, their group is incorrect. Because I think that's simply what should be done in the context of incompatible claims to truth. I want them to have the same desire to rationally persuade me of their positions.<br /><br /><strong>Q: Do you think Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter-day Saints are in cults?</strong><br /><br />A: In short, no. For my own extended take on that, though, stay tuned for a possible post in which I'll try to explain my thoughts on the 'cult' issue. In brief, however, I'm no longer certain that the word "cult" is a useful term at all, so naturally I'd be disinclined to label certain groups with it; also, it provides an unnecessary stumbling-block for dialogue. If we were to develop a notion of "cult" based exclusively on structural features and their social effects, I'm quite confident that the LDS Church wouldn't be one. Jehovah's Witnesses might. I don't focus on the issue much at all because I'm concerned chiefly with truth, and I know of very few viable definitions of "cult" that preclude an alleged 'cult' from happening to be right.<br /><br /><strong>Q: Do Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter-day Saints serve another Jesus?</strong><br /><br />A: That's a thornier question than most think, and it's tough to give a straight 'yes' or 'no' answer. To give a woefully short answer, yes in one sense and no in another, but that of course needs a lot of further clarification, which I hope to give in a future post. I would like to say that I find that rather few 'countercultists' have done much serious reflection on either a theory of reference or on 2 Corinthians 11:4 in its historical setting.<br /><br /><strong>Q: Would you ever convert to one of those groups?</strong><br /><br />A: If I were convinced they were right, sure! In a heartbeat! All I want to do is find the truth and latch onto it. If I should come to believe that another group has it, well, then sign me up! I strive to be as open as possible to being rationally persuaded of opposing views. However, it also so happens that I have current views that I consider to be more rationally defensible - and, in fact, that I consider to be true. And so unless a Jehovah's Witness or a Latter-day Saint - or somebody else - can give me good reasons to think that I'm wrong and they're right, I'm staying put in orthodox Christianity, because to do otherwise would be an offense to God, to truth, and to reason.<br /><br /><strong>Q: You're a jerk, by the way.</strong><br /><br />A: True! I'm glad my efforts aren't going unnoticed. Have a nice day!JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com6tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-41128376204853892552009-12-12T08:04:00.004-05:002010-01-08T10:31:56.363-05:00Reflections on Lessons with LDS MissionariesOver the past three months, while staying in Greece - I'm back in the United States now - I had a number of opportunities to meet with Latter-day Saint missionaries. Though I never attended a Sunday morning worship service at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I think I may have spent more time in that building than I did with my own church home in Greece (<a href="http://www.standrewsgreece.com/Site/Welcome.html">St. Andrews International Church</a>). After my initial encounter with a group of Latter-day Saints at the Areopagus where Paul preached, I had nine 'lessons' (<a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/10/lds-lesson-1.html">1</a>, <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/10/lds-lesson-2.html">2</a>, <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/10/lds-lesson-3.html">3</a>, <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-lesson-4.html">4</a>, <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-lesson-5.html">5</a>, <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-lesson-6.html">6</a>, <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-lesson-7.html">7</a>, <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-lesson-8.html">8</a>, <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-lesson-9.html">9</a>) with LDS missionaries, and most of those meetings also involved a former bishop who's now a CES Institute teacher. During these, I went through all of the lessons that missionaries teach investigators prior to baptism, and this included all doctrinal material, sparse though it may have been. I also attended two Center for Young Adults events on Saturday evenings, as well as two fireside chats: <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-fireside-chat.html">the first</a> with a member of the Third Quorum of the Seventy and <a href="http://jbandjws.blogspot.com/2009/11/lds-fireside-chat-2.html">the second</a> with a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy.<br /><br />Throughout all this, I met numerous Latter-day Saints, most of whom were currently serving as missionaries, from all over the United States and Europe (and a few non-missionary members, I think, from Africa). And I'm pleased to number quite a few of these people as my friends, people whom I hope to keep in touch with for years to come. They're friendly people. Not overbearingly friendly in the way that Jehovah's Witnesses can <em>sometimes</em> come across, but friendly, a normal human sort of friendly of the sort that we could all strive for. I really have come to regard several of the folks there as good friends. And I don't think I can emphasize that enough. They're genuinely authentic, decent, pious people who genuinely want to serve God to the best of their ability, and who have good senses of humor, and vivid, interesting lives, and admirable devotion. What's not to love in all that? <br /><br />Aside from that, some reflections on my experiences? First of all, I'd have to say that I was surprised just how many of my questions received very indirect confessions of ignorance in response. For the most part, they tried to mark these as instances of understandable ignorance, saying that they were questions for which we don't have the answers in this mortal life. I think that, in many of these cases, that reply is more of a cop-out than a real interaction. Sometimes, theology has to be done by speculating, by pushing the boundaries of what we know to see what works and what doesn't, and then seeking God's help to let the truth win out. I find the confessions of ignorance ironic for several reasons. First, in an early meeting, one of the missionaries said that they were absolutely sure that they could answer without problem about 95% of the questions that I or anyone else could throw at them. I think the percentages were just about perfectly reversed. Second, they spent a great deal of effort dancing around their ignorance and trying to excuse it. And third, their church leaders have historically made very firm pronouncements on certain points of doctrine, and yet probing the edges with questions will frequently result in claims of ignorance as to whether the doctrine itself is even taught.<br /><br />So I think that my biggest surprise was their inability to answer some of my questions, or at least take a stronger stab at it. I think that I might have actually been able to do a better job defending Latter-day Saint doctrine. But, of course, this sort of thing is just what I do. The best way to play with an idea is to test it, hammer it, speculate a bit, and see what happens. When I asked questions about their strict identification of Jesus with Jehovah, to the exclusion of the Father - which <a href="http://lds-mormon.com/jehovahasfather.shtml">has not always been their church's uniform practice</a> - they failed to handle a single one of my challenges adequately. Biblical passages that teach otherwise were dismissed as evidence of the Bible's corruption. Issues regarding the temple as dedicated to Jesus or to his Father were similarly a source of consternation, because they could only escape the force of the query by implicitly accusing Jesus of needlessly misleading people. And with respect to the Decalogue's prohibition of worshipping gods other than Jehovah, they really had no good answer. They also failed to deal with Isaiah's clear statements of monotheism, other than to either appeal to context (which, in this case, could not dismiss the problem) or else dismiss Isaiah's text as corrupt without any evidence other than their own position. When asked about the Father's past, they shrouded the matter in obscurity and contradiction, first suggesting that the Father is outside of time but failing to reconcile that with the logic of their own views of God, and then later conceding that they believe that the Father was once a man a lot like us, presumably with a pre-mortality and mortality. They also could not answer challenges to their hopes of robust deification, other than to make it immune to logical inquiry at all--which is always the surest sign of defeat. They could not find any biblical warrant for their church's views on the Melchizedek Priesthood, and they also couldn't really answer questions about where apostolic Christians performed ordinances. This is all to say nothing of their indefensible position on the textual reliability of biblical manuscripts.<br /><br />While I did nonetheless find them to be, on the whole, familiar with the basics of their own faith - I was pleased that at least two of my interlocuters knew of the King Follett Discourse, to take just one example - I also found that they weren't quite so familiar with certain other crucial things. For example, the basics of orthodox Christian theology were somewhat lost on them, and I doubt I need to repeat the numerous gaffes on church history.<br /><br />If I were persuaded that their beliefs are true, that their church is <em>the</em> One True Church, then I would gladly convert. No question about it. And I am open to that sort of persuasion. But the past few months have not gotten me closer to believing that what they say is, in fact, true. I see no biblical or rational warrant for their particular religious epistemology. I now see their doctrines of the Godhead and of exaltation as being weaker than ever, and I still haven't seen good reasons to think of the Book of Mormon as an accurate historical record or of Joseph Smith as an authentic prophet of God. I have, however, gained a greater understanding of LDS beliefs and practices, and I think that was a very worthwhile experience. I'm very glad to have experienced what I did over the past few months.JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487734021157811498.post-79240151549974265482009-11-30T23:12:00.005-05:002009-12-23T12:24:10.914-05:00LDS Lesson #9When I arrived at the LDS Church at 6:30, it wasn't quite open yet; however, Lysistrata and Sappho--whom I hadn't expected to see again after the Center for Young Adults activity two nights ago--were standing outside teaching a Finnish potential convert (an attractive young woman who doesn't feature again in this narrative) Bible and BoM stories from a picture book, or something of the sort; one of the sisters told me that they're the same pictures used to teach her when they were little. Admetus and Alcestis finally arrived and opened up the church--it gets sealed behind a lowered sheet of metal akin to a garage door when not in use--and we all went inside. As they took the elevator up, I opted for the stairs so as to make a quick stop on the way.<br /><br />And when we all reached the third floor it came to pass that the sisters took the main room for their lesson with the aforementioned Finnish girl, and I spent some final time in Admetus' little office space. When Creon and Orestes arrived, we took a few pictures to keep the memories alive, and then Creon and Orestes took me down a level to a room that would be suitable for our last meeting. As we waited for Admetus, it came to pass that the three of us looked at a pamphlet that had been left there; it was in Greek and evidently concerned LDS temples, because it contained numerous pictures of the insides of various rooms in some of them. I got to see what Orestes had been talking about when he spoke of 'grapes' hanging from the ceiling in the celestial room of the Salt Lake City Temple, and I could understand why Creon considers that temple to be a bit too "gaudy". It was nice to finally have some images to put with my impressions of what such a temple might be like. I said I was disappointed that it didn't have flickering candles in dark, secret chambers; when I said that I liked dark and creepy rituals, Orestes said, "But dark and creepy is so... weird."<br /><br />And it came to pass that, when Admetus finally arrived and we opened the session with a quick time of prayer, they wanted to talk about revelation, and although looking forward to my final questions, I was happy to let them. It started out with a reading from <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/9/7-9#7"><em>Doctrine and Covenants</em> 9:7-9</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me. But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right then I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right. But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me</span>"). As my missionary friends explained, Oliver Cowdery, who had been a scribe for the Book of Mormon, wanted a promotion, as it were. He wanted to try his hand at the act of translation itself. Joseph Smith consented to allow him to, but when Cowdery attempted it, he discovered that he was unable. The ninth section of <em>Doctrine and Covenants</em> was given in response to this event. Cowdery, they explained, failed in two respects: he failed to do the necessary legwork for receiving the gift, and he failed to bring the matter to God first.<br /><br />And it came to pass that the next scriptural passage they brought up for discussion was <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/1/22-26#22">Acts 1:22-26</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, that he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles</span>"). According to them, there is no actual record of Matthias having personally seen the risen Christ. They used this passage as a biblical illustration of the procedure outlined in D&C 9:7-9. First, the eleven remaining apostles of Christ used their own powers of discernment to find two candidates for the position. In the words of D&C 9, they studied it out in their own minds. They then brought the issue to the Lord for a final decision on the matter, allowing it to be his choice rather than theirs. Of course, I note now that even if we accept this schematization, the two passages there diverge. Where D&C 9 urges the believer to take refuge in private feelings, Acts 1 shows the disciples using a more public venue of verification: visible lots. Whatever one may think about the merits of choosing by casting lots, at least it's a publicly visible result, if not a publicly visible mechanism. I wish I had thought of this during the meeting. Would've been fun to ask them.<br /><br />And it came to pass that Creon said that it establishes a pattern, as Luke frequently does in Acts: when one apostle dies, another one must be appointed. I take issue with this. The reason for replacing Judas with Matthias was not so much Judas' death as his defection, as is essentially declared in <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/1/25#25">Acts 1:25</a>. When Jesus spoke of his disciples sitting on twelve thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel (<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/19/28#28">Matthew 19:28</a>), this seems to keep the number at a strict twelve, and any other apostles (for which the biblical requirements seem to rather clearly include having seen the risen Christ, cf. <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_cor/9/1#1">1 Corinthians 9:1</a>) would not be among the Twelve. So I question, for example, the LDS practice of continuing to claim to have a legitimate Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, since these must then be seen as supplanting Jesus' disciples after their death. (The Book of Mormon, by the way, reaffirms that Jesus' twelve disciples will judge the twelve tribes of Israel--see <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_ne/12/9#9">1 Nephi 12:9</a> and <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/morm/3/18#18">Mormon 3:18</a>--but doesn't really seem to grapple with the problem. On my reading of those passages, the Old World apostles will judge the New World apostles, and the New World apostles will judge the New World Israelites, so it seems. But this is all so foreign to Matthew 19:28 that it's difficult to take it seriously without an overriding reason to do so.)<br /><br />And it came to pass that Orestes said that revelation is the key to God's one true church--namely, theirs--from top to bottom. Every person, he explained, has a responsibility to gain revelations for themselves from God. This requires preparation on the part of the seeker; as with the case of Oliver Cowdery, there's no license for being lazy and waiting on God to speak. Christ said, "ask, and ye shall receive" (<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/john/16/24#24">John 16:24</a>; <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/4/7#7">D&C 4:7</a>), and since what church to join is such a fundamental issue, surely it falls under the purview of that passage. Thus, we have biblical counsel to ask Christ what church to join. The hard part, he said, is knowing when one has done enough to receive such a revelation. Humility and sincerity are crucial. The exact words?<br /><blockquote>Revelation is so key to God's church, so key all the way up from the very top, all the way down to the very bottom. I mean, the prophet has a very big responsibility to be in tune with the Spirit and to get revelation for the Church as a whole. But in the very same, in a very serious sense, us personally, we have the responsibility to get personal revelation for ourselves, to know what things we need to change in our lives, what things we're doing good, to be really guided by the Spirit, and to receive, you know, that what we need. That is our communication, that's our link between us and God, through revelation, through the Holy Spirit. This is so important, especially because at least right now in your life this is exactly what you need. You need to be able to get an answer from God. You need to be ready to receive that answer. We've kinda talked a little bit about it, and we've said that you're kinda in the in-between phase, maybe it's true, maybe it's not, you just feel like you haven't really gotten an answer. And it's hard for me to believe really in any situation - especially for something as basic as this, like 'what church should I join?', like 'is the Book of Mormon true?', something-- such a basic question - when Christ said so many times in so many different ways, "Ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you"... I don't think that-- I mean, maybe rarely, God-- I don't try to limit what God can do, he can do what he wants, but according to my opinion I don't believe that God would make you wait to-- as long as you've done your part, I believe that he will give you that answer. Now, and that's the hard part, knowing if you've done enough, knowing if you've done your part. And so if you feel like you're not getting an answer, I'd like to invite you to check everything. Check first your motives. Why do you want an answer? Is this, is this, is this a sincere motive? Is this something that you would act upon? Think to yourself, you know, the Book of Mormon's a good book, you've read it and you liked it, but you don't know yet whether it's inspired, whether it's of God or not. So I guess that, that's the goal, you need to know where you're going with it, you need to have the goal, you need to have the answer. But you need to make sure that you're humble enough that you're ready to act on whatever God has for you, whether it be a yes or a no. But that, you know, that your intentions are-- you have every intention to act on the answer God will give you.</blockquote>And it came to pass that Creon added that there is a difference between having a "desire to know" and having a "need to know". People who simply have a desire to know the truth--out of, say, academic curiosity--have no right to a revelation. Only those who have a felt need, who burn with passion to get to the heart of the matter, are ready for such a revelation. Since (or so he thinks) if the Book of Mormon is true, then it follows that Joseph Smith was a true prophet and the church and its priesthood have been restored, it is truly a matter of great consequence, and "baptism by this authority means salvation". (And, once again, salvation has been seemingly shifted away from Christ and onto their church's baptism, or at least that's how it comes across. And yes, of course I'm aware that one could say that the necessity of proper baptism derives from its inherent power as an identification with the death and resurrection of Christ, and so forth, so that salvation is from Christ through baptism, or some such formulation.) Thus, we must clearly perceive our own need to receive an answer. And as he put it:<br /><br /><blockquote>Either you've been saved by the church that you're in already, or you haven't been. And it's either somewhere else, or you already have it. Um, the Book of Mormon is that perfect key, to say, "Alright, well I can know, if the Book of Mormon is true, then that means everything else about, you know, the steps behind that, there's certain precautions. So it means, 'Is my soul saved?' Because I have a need to be with God again. I have a need to be baptized, to be cleansed from all my sins, because if I'm not baptized by proper authority, then I won't be able to be in the kingdom of God and I have these sins still on me." So there's a big difference between just having a desire and having a need, and when God sees that our need is true, that we see our need, that's when I think he'll give us the answers as well. That's when he'll feed us the knowledge, because he knows that you are sincere and you will act upon these things.</blockquote>And it came to pass that Orestes then turned to another passage of LDS scripture, <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/8/1-3#1"><em>Doctrine and Covenants</em> 8:1-3</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Oliver Cowdery, verily, verily, I say unto you, that assuredly as the Lord liveth, who is your God and your Redeemer, even so surely shall you receive a knowledge of whatsoever things you shall ask in faith, with an honest heart, believing that you shall receive a knowledge concerning the engravings of old records, which are ancient, which contain those parts of my scripture of which has been spoken by the manifestation of my Spirit. Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart. Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground</span>"). Here we find three criteria for receiving a revelation: (1) ask in faith, (2) have an honest heart, and (3) believe that an answer will be given. Another passage that he cited, <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/moro/10/3-5#3">Moroni 10:3-5</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts. And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things</span>"), the famous promise passage adored by Latter-day Saints everywhere, also lists three criteria: (1) have a sincere heart, (2) ask with real intent, and (3) have faith in Christ. (Notice how none of these 'promise' passages are from scripture that Latter-day Saints share in common with orthodox Christians?) We need to seek out of a true desire to please God. When Orestes asked me how that promise makes me feel, I answered, "That's a very, very strong promise, and if it is one that God really has given, then it's absolutely the most reliable method of coming to the truth." He replied, "I believe that wholeheartedly, and I don't think I could have put it better myself."<br /><br />And at this point it came to pass that Creon chimed in with a biblical passage, <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gal/5/22#22">Galatians 5:22</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith</span>"), and said that the fruit of the Spirit shows the quality of the "feelings that we're going to feel", the different forms that the feeling of confirmation takes. (I might add that this is such a peculiar interpretation of Galatians that I hardly know where to begin. None of the fruit of the Spirit are, properly speaking, 'feelings', or would not likely have been understood as such by the original hearers of Paul's letter.) The fuller statement, for context:<br /><blockquote>One of the things that sticks up to me is, "by the power of the Holy Ghost", which reminded me of Galatians, chapter 5, verse, uh, 22. Previously Paul is kind of mentioning all of the things that are not of the Holy Spirit, and then he talks about what is of the Spirit. So the kind of feelings that we're going to feel through the Holy Ghost, that's the power of the Holy Ghost, it says in verse 22 of Galatians, chapter 5, it says that "the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance"--now temperance, the Greek word is a little bit different, the Greek word is 'self-control', it says "against such there is no law". So you can see that the fruits of the Spirit, the power that we're going to feel, it's a feeling, it's a power, and it's a converting power within us. In <em>Doctrine and Covenants</em> it says that there's a 'burning within the bosom'. Other people have said that it feels like a-- some people feel something from the top of their head to the bottom of their toes.</blockquote>And it came to pass that Orestes, tying into this, brought in another LDS scripture, <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/6/20-23#20"><em>Doctrine and Covenants</em> 6:20-23</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Behold, thou art Oliver, and I have spoken unto thee because of thy desires; therefore treasure up these words in thy heart. Be faithful and diligent in keeping the commandments of God, and I will encircle thee in the arms of thy love. Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I am the same that came unto mine own, and mine own received me not. I am the light which shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not. Verily, verily, I say unto you, if you desire a further witness, cast your mind upon the night that you cried unto me in your heart, that you might know concerning the truth of these things. Did I not speak peace to your mind concerning the matter? What greater witness can you have than from God?</span>"), which Admetus read. Orestes explained that the peace given upon the request was an answer and a sufficient witness to the truth. "By fruits", he added, "we can know the false prophets", but he glossed this by saying that these fruits are whether the spirit of the teaching feels good or not so good. (Inside of my head at this time, a little man was banging his skull against the inside of my skull, shouting, "No! No! No!" When John exhorts people to "try the spirits" in <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_jn/4/1#1">1 John 4:1</a>, or Paul exhorts people to "prove all things" in <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_thes/5/21#21">1 Thessalonians 5:1</a>, our feelings were emphatically <em>not</em> the recommended measuring stick.) A fuller statement, for context:<br /><br /><blockquote>Now I think many times, everyone of these days, they think, you know, "I, I gotta have something big", but in reality this-- Oliver had already received an answer to his prayers. He had prayed, and he had received that peace, that peace of mind, that-- those feelings that only come from the Spirit of God, and it spoke peace to his mind, he felt good about it. But yet he didn't trust that, he just thought, "You know, I, it feels good to pray." But that is a fruit, that is the fruit of the Spirit. Jesus Christ said that by fruits we can know the false prophets, I mean, by things as simple as, 'the spirit doesn't feel good', you know, or 'the spirit does feel good', by small things can we judge how to work, how to act, and so it's still-- it takes faith, it takes a little bit of faith, because it's not, you didn't see an angel, you didn't see anything, but then he says, "What greater witness can ye have than from God?" Because that feeling comes from God himself.</blockquote>And it came to pass that Creon hearkened back to the clip we'd watched called <em>The Restoration</em>, particularly to a line given to Lucy Mack (Joseph Smith's mother) to the effect that he should obtain from God that which no man can take away, meaning a direct, private testimony of the truth that isn't susceptible to external disconfirmation. As Creon explained, no reasoning, no philosophy, no way of man can possibly undermine a 'personal testimony'--and therein, I think, lies one of the chief problems. Orestes encouraged me to engage in some introspection as to whether I'm truly open to the LDS faith and whether I meet the criteria outlined. (I do, save for believing firmly that God will indeed answer prayers in the way they describe, because I am neither persuaded from the Scriptures nor by reason that that's how God works.)<br /><br />And it came to pass that Creon added that there's more involved than just reading the Book of Mormon; if one applies the Book of Mormon's principles to one's life, one will invariably become closer to God than someone else who abides by the principles of any other book, including the Bible itself. Needless to say, this proclamation of the Book of Mormon's practical superiority intrigued me, so I asked for some examples of principles that are in the Book of Mormon but are lacking in the Bible. The first example I was given was from <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_ne/3/7#7">1 Nephi 3:7</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing that he commandeth them</span>"), wherein it is taught that the Lord will provide a path to accomplish any commandment he gives. (And yet, I find it curious that the practice of 'plural marriage' seems to have been stopped precisely because the government disapproved, and God purportedly commanded his church to acquiesce rather than follow the commandment that, in the teaching of many early LDS leaders, was essential to having eternal life.) They did concede, fortunately, that <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_cor/10/13#13">1 Corinthians 10:13</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it</span>") stands as an obvious corollary. I personally would have to say that anyone who couldn't see that "God will make a way, where there seems to be no way" (in the words of Don Moen's now-classic <a href="http://www.uulyrics.com/music/don-moen/song-god-will-make-a-way/">song</a>) would probably be a bit of a dullard, so color me unimpressed thus far with the Book of Mormon's alleged 'greater-than-the-Bible' insight.<br /><br />And it came to pass that Admetus jumped in with another passage from the Book of Mormon, this time using <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/mosiah/2/17-18#17">Mosiah 2:17-18</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And behold, I tell you these things that ye may learn wisdom; that ye may learn that when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God. Behold, ye have called me your king; and if I, whom ye call your king, do labor to serve you, then ought ye not to labor to serve one another?</span>"). Service to others being service to God, he said, surpasses all biblical injunction, and Mosiah 2 is all about service. On the contrary, it seems to be that the Book of Mormon's statement here could be easily extrapolated from several verses in the New Testament, such as <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/25/40#40">Matthew 25:40</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And the king shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me</span>") and a synthesis of <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/eph/6/7#7">Ephesians 6:7</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men</span>") and <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gal/5/13#13">Galatians 5:13</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another</span>"). Admetus also referenced <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/36">Alma 36</a> as teaching about the afterlife and <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/2">2 Nephi 2</a> as teaching about the fall, and both of these go beyond what the Bible says. However, since we were supposed to be focusing on principles for practical, day-to-day living, these were both irrelevant.<br /><br />And it came to pass that, since they had already lost sight somewhat of the point of the question, I wasn't surprised when the trend continued. Creon brought up <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/22/18#18">Alma 22:18</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">O God, Aaron hath told me that there is a God; and if there is a God, and if thou art God, wilt thou make thyself known unto me, and I will give away all my sins to know thee, and that I may be raised from the dead, and be saved at the last day. And now when the king had said these words, he was struck as if he were dead</span>"), one of his favorite verses for the (admittedly very beautiful) phrase "I will give away all my sins to know thee". Admetus, with perhaps a slightly greater focus on the issue at hand, noted that the Book of Mormon is much clearer than the Bible on the proper mode of baptism. (He cited no verses other than the entire book of <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/3_ne/contents">3 Nephi</a>.) He related a story from his youth when he and his father went to see a movie about the life of Jesus, and it featured a scene where John the Baptist led Jesus down into the river, and then proceeded to baptize him by sprinkling. His father had, of course, burst out laughing, as I probably would have as well. Orestes tossed in <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/37/42-45#42">Alma 37:42-45</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Therefore, they tarried in the wilderness, or did not travel a direct course, and were afflicted with hunger and thirst, because of their transgressions. And now, my son, I would that ye should understand that these things are not without a shadow; for as out fathers were slothful to give heed to this compass (now these things were temporal) they did not prosper; even so with things which are spiritual. For behold, it is as easy to give heed to the word of Christ, which will point you a straight course to eternal bliss, as it was for our fathers to give heed to this compass, which would point unto them a straight course to the promised land. And now I say, is there not a type in this thing? For just as surely as this director did bring our fathers, by following its course, to the promised land, shall the words of Christ, if we follow their course, carry us beyond this vale of sorrow into a far better land of promise</span>"), which he said gave a very clear interpretation of the brazen serpent from Exodus, though the brazen serpent actually appears nowhere in those verses; he must have been thinking of something else. And the allegorical use of the story of the Nephites, while quite nice, has probably been done ages before Joseph Smith's time by Christian commentators on the Exodus narrative. Creon hearkened back to <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/37/6#6">Alma 37:6</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Now ye may suppose that this is foolishness in me; but behold I say to you, that by small and simple things are great things brought to pass; and small means in many instances doth confound the wise</span>"), saying that LDS missionary work is an excellent example of "small and simple things" doing great deeds, because their church sends out such young missionaries. These things, they summed up, all cohere with the gospel but are not taught clearly in the Bible.<br /><br />Finally moving back to the issue of revelation, it came to pass that Admetus related a story from former LDS Church president/prophet/seer Gordon B. Hinckley's famed interview with Mike Wallace of <em>60 Minutes</em>. When Wallace asked him directly how a prophet speaks with God, Hinckley alluded to <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_kgs/19/9-13#9">1 Kings 19:9-13</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And he came thither to a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah? And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away. And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake: and after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice. And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?</span>") and said that promptings come quietly and frequently to him as a "still, small voice". Admetus said that most people receive revelation, not via various objects (he gave as examples the Urim and Thummim and the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liahona_(Book_of_Mormon)">Liahona</a>), but quietly in the midst of prayer, as "thoughts in your mind and feelings in your heart". He cited some footnoted material from Joseph Smith-History to the effect that "these were days never to be forgotten", and he said that he was sure that our encounters would be days that none of us would ever forget. After all, he said, I was the first person they'd met who actually could understand the Christian creeds (which is rather sad), and we were leaving as good friends. Admetus also said that he was quite certain that I could have gone after them far more aggressively and vigorously than I did--which is very, very, very true.<br /><br />And after this it came to pass that Creon related how some of our mutual friends go about receiving revelation, to give some concrete examples. Tiresias, for example, learns doctrine according to an interesting process. His first step is philosophizing, studying out the matter, developing an idea, and writing it down. He then talks to others about it, bounces the idea off of them, and revises and refines it. Then, he prays about it and asks God to enlighten his mind. After this, he spends some time in silence just staring at the paper on which he wrote down the idea. At times, he feels led to simply crumple it up and toss it; on other occasions, he sees points where it can be improved and then kept. Solon, on the other hand, alternates prayer and writing. He gets down on his knees to pray, then gets up to write something down, then gets down on his knees again, and repeats. When Creon asked what was going on, Solon said that he was going through the preceding day with the Lord, asking God to bring things to his remembrance or not, and seeking knowledge.<br /><br />And it came to pass at this point that Orestes turned to me and said that "what you felt here tonight is the Holy Ghost". He urged me to trust in that feeling, however it happens to feel precisely, and to remember it always. If I do so, he said, I will "never go wrong", and that it would be the same feeling I'd get while praying about the Book of Mormon.<br /><blockquote>What you felt here tonight is the Holy Ghost, and if you learn to trust that feeling, learn to follow that feeling-- Never forget what the Holy Ghost feels like. For me, I can think of what I'm feeling right now and I can say, "Okay, I know exactly what it's like for me to have the Holy Ghost." For you, it might be different, but I think, I think you feel very much how I feel right now. I feel full right now. I feel very, very full inside, and I don't know how to explain it, I've always fallen short with words, but the Holy Spirit has borne witness to me tonight that the things that we've talked about were true principles, that these things were all true, and the Holy Ghost continues to bear witness in my life of the things that I do. It's so great because it's kinda like, sometimes you gotta know, like, "God, are you really happy where I'm at? Are you really needing me? Am I really-- am I a good person?" And it's so great to have that, that comfort, the Comforter to come and to witness to me time and time again that, 'Yeah, you're doing okay', or maybe, 'You can just fix this thing', and then I feel better. But never forget that feeling right now, because if you always remember that feeling, then you'll never go wrong, as long as you obey that. Now, know how it feels, and when you pray about the Book of Mormon, you'll receive that same feeling. You'll know that the Book of Mormon is true, through the fruits of the Spirit. [. . .] The Spirit is just delicious to my soul, I don't know how else to describe it, but right now I just feel full, I know the Spirit's here with us right now. That would be my one greatest counsel to you, is to know how you feel and to always live your life as to feel the Holy Ghost with you, to always feel this, to always have your spirit full, full of gratitude, full of faith, through all these things that the Spirit brings. And I know that the Book of Mormon also will help you with that, 'cause it helps me every day. These things-- I just am not the same person without it.</blockquote>And it came to pass that around this time, during the earlier portion of this monologue, I could almost have tricked myself into believing that I was feeling a 'burning in the bosom', to use that term to cover all revelatory/confirmatory experiences of the sort that Latter-day Saints emphasize. That is, I felt happy and peaceful, of a sort; it's difficult to put into words in retrospect, though I tend to find that with most emotions. It was interesting to evaluate the process while it was happening, though. If I were an uncritical investigator, I probably wouldn't have given it a thought, but instead would have acclaimed it as the feeling of which they had spoken, and taken it as solid proof for the truth of their position. I can easily see how a person who wants to believe and has an uncritical epistemology could be taken in--and believe me when I say that I did want to believe, wanted to feel that 'burning in the bosom'. With a bit greater reflection, however, it was obvious that it was more or less the exact same feeling I always tend to have when having a good conversation with friends whom I really, really like. The feeling was, in all probability, no more than the psychological component of positive social experience. At least, so I think. But hey, what do I know?<br /><br />Well, what I do know is this: that I have--or at least believe that I have; I'd be willing to reinterpret these experiences in light of forthcoming evidence, if necessary--felt the Holy Spirit very powerfully at various points in my life, in diverse ways. I've had what some might call 'mystical experiences', for example, those moments of God-intoxication in which I can feel the Spirit rush through my body, eliciting exuberant praise for God, and in which I'd hardly be surprised to see the heavens open, revealing the throne of God. I'd say I've felt the Spirit on other occasions, such as the day I ascended the steps toward my current church home; I felt a sense of peace, as though a burden were removed from my shoulders, of a kind that I've seldom felt since. And, as a lesser example, one might ascribe to the Spirit the sensation of recognizing Truth with a capital 'T' that I can feel coursing through my veins as I read the Nicene Creed--a liveliness and excitement and inner rejoicing at the lofty nature of God and his immense condescension to meet us where we are. If we're going to go by feelings--which I don't, because feelings can easily mislead, as I've learned the hard way at times--then no feeling I've had while talking to the missionaries or while reading the Book of Mormon can compare with the feelings I've just described as Spirit-inspired. If the Holy Spirit wanted to communicate with me via feelings and impressions, any of those would work fine for catching my attention, I think.<br /><br />And it came to pass that, after I promised to use these tools to further investigate the Book of Mormon and the LDS Church, I was asked again if I had anyone I could possibly refer to them who might like to chat with LDS missionaries. They told me a bit about how exactly the referral process works. While I was fairly sure that I didn't know anyone in Athens who'd be interested, I said that I'd continue to think about anyone back in America who might be interested. After that, I got a bit of time to ask some last questions. The first one, which I didn't have on my list but which had occurred to me at some point over the last few weeks, was rather simple, and they actually had an answer of sorts. Noting that Joseph Smith claimed to have been visited by a number of 'resurrected personages' (e.g., Moroni, John the Baptist, Peter, the sons of Zebedee), I asked when they were resurrected. Creon answered that on Easter, many other saints rose from the dead along with the resurrection of Christ (cf. <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/27/52-53#52">Matthew 27:52-53</a>). If this had been the whole answer, it obviously wouldn't have worked. Creon, however, added that they understand the 'first resurrection' spoken of in <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/rev/20/5-6#5">Revelation 20:5-6</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years</span>") as beginning with the resurrection of Christ and continuing throughout the current age and up until the conclusion of Christ's millennial reign (which Latter-day Saints consider to be a future period, whereas as a tentative amillennialist I consider the present period to be the millennial reign). Thus, he explained, resurrections are actually ongoing in the present age, particularly for those who need to be raised from the dead for a given purpose, as was the case for the figures in question. With respect to the precise point in history at which any of them were raised from the dead, however, Creon professed an understandable ignorance. This was actually one of the few questions for which they had a decent answer, and I congratulated them on it.<br /><br />My final question was one I had been saving, since it wouldn't have been appropriate at an earlier stage in the game. I noted that LDS evangelism places a high premium on urging people to pray for a direct revelation from God as to the truth of the message, and I asked whether Acts showed this to be the dominant apostolic method. And it came to pass that Orestes went to bat first, saying that conversion necessarily happens through the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit can work through a variety of media. The Book of Mormon is of course one but not the only one. The Holy Spirit can also reach people through the modern-day prophet, through talks, through pamphlets, and other ways as well. Admetus cited <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/28/18-20#18">Matthew 28:18-20</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen</span>") for reasons that remain a tad inexplicable, while Creon raised the more relevant passage of <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/2/37-41#37">Acts 2:37-41</a> ("<span style="color:#009900;">Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you into the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls</span>"), focusing on the phrase "pricked in the heart", which he said indicated that they felt the leading of the Holy Spirit; that is, they were receiving revelation. He said that "the way that we teach as missionaries is inspired of God", insofar as it's a clear case of God working through human weakness.<br /><br />And it came to pass that, when I asked whether the rest of Acts bore out their analysis, Creon referenced his previous remarks about Acts as a book of patterns, and said that this is one of the patterns assumed throughout the rest of the work. He said that it doesn't appear as much in the case of Paul because much of Paul's mission was to strengthen those already converted in the faith, as can be seen in his letters. (Notice, of course, that at best, this just says that Acts assumes that the leading of the Holy Spirit will be involved in all true conversion, which is an uncontroversial proposition. I didn't challenge them on it there in the interest of time, though in retrospect I should have, but nowhere did they show that their methods in evangelism are at all parallel to those of Christ's apostles. The apostles appealed to verifiable facts and urged people to make the rational decision; Latter-day Saint missionaries frequently appeal to unverifiable private experience and urge people to follow their feelings.)<br /><br />And it came to pass that this brought our very last meeting to a close at last. And it came to pass that I said the closing prayer:<br /><blockquote>Heavenly Father, God and Lord of all, I thank you for having had so many opportunities over the past couple months to meet such wonderful friends as these three men and to converse with them about things that do concern you and do concern what truly matters in life. I thank you for having watched over our conversations and having had a great deal to do with them. I pray that you would see fit to guard over all of us, guide us into all truth, and strengthen us in the days to come. As I depart to go back to the United States, I pray that you would continue to work in my life to show me truth and in their lives to show them truth, and that you would-- that it would be your will to allow us to keep in frequent contact and to continue to share with one another. We're so grateful for all of the many things that you've done in each of our lives, and we pray that we would all find the places that you have marked out for us in your grand plan for the renewal of the earth and the bringing of mankind into your love. Thank you, Lord, for everything. In Christ's name, Amen.</blockquote>Saying goodbye wasn't easy, though it hasn't really hit me yet that I may never see these guys again, at least in this world. But I certainly hope I do. Creon and Orestes and I walked part of the way back from the church before our paths diverged; we shook hands one last time before I walked forward into the darkness once again...JBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13108158469007498050noreply@blogger.com0